rabbits lion head?

[Bunnylady]

Quote:
So you bought some mixed-breed rabbits that happen to have Lionhead in the mix, and which are from rabbits that are clearly too big to be "real" Lionheads, and you want to breed them to make more mutt rabbits which may or may not have manes to sell to other unsuspecting people as "Lionheads?"

I'm sorry, but I really think a person ought to be familiar with the breed standard, and choose animals that at least come close to it, if they are breeding anything that they intend to call by the name of a breed. If a person chooses to breed mutts, that of course is their business, but I think they should call them that. Calling them anything else is misleading.

 

[erijn5]

We actually breed Lionhead bunnies. They have short hair on there backs, and the lion mane around their face and long hair on their legs and belly. Their fur will not truely come in around 8 mo. They loose their baby fur and then ours comes in strong. Lionheads only get I think 4-5 lbs. But my of my males is 6-7 lbs. he is a Chubby Bunny..They are so friendly great bunnies! Good luck!

 

[Bunnylady]

Actually, the working standard for the breed calls for a top weight of 3.12 lbs. That's slightly larger than a Jersey Wooly, and only about a pound heavier than a Netherland Dwarf.

 

[Akane]

Selling mutt rabbits is difficult and most of what I see for sale that isn't pure are advertised for meat at $5/rabbit. We breed some mutts but anything that doesn't sell is dog food. Properly put down and butchered first of course. Otherwise we've had up to 9 kits in a litter and we sell maybe 2 mutts before they are breeding age and the doe could have had another litter or 2 again. Getting some mid quality purebreds is not anymore expensive and they at least mostly sell. We still can't breed the mini rex at will unless we want to be over run but aside from the dead of winter I've had a pretty constant stream of emails for them. We've also been attending rabbit shows to trade and sell rabbits. Not getting your name out there cuts down on things a lot.

 

[kasey08]

Quote:
So you bought some mixed-breed rabbits that happen to have Lionhead in the mix, and which are from rabbits that are clearly too big to be "real" Lionheads, and you want to breed them to make more mutt rabbits which may or may not have manes to sell to other unsuspecting people as "Lionheads?"

I'm sorry, but I really think a person ought to be familiar with the breed standard, and choose animals that at least come close to it, if they are breeding anything that they intend to call by the name of a breed. If a person chooses to breed mutts, that of course is their business, but I think they should call them that. Calling them anything else is misleading.

And who said I was going to call them pure Lion Heads? You need to get your story straight before you jump down my throat about "misleading". Apparently I was mislead. And I'm just going to sell them as pets. There is alot of wanted adds about pet rabbits.

 

[MrsFordTN]

Let me say, that there really isn't a pure LH

I mean the papers may say 'pure' but after F3 gen, they are called 'pure'

Let me explain:

To make more LHs you take a 'pure' one and breed it to something you want to take genetics from (ie netherland dwarf for cute little itty bitty rabbits)

So you breed your 'pure' to the Nethie and get a F1 LH, which will be either Single or No maned babies, genetic can't be Double Maned

Then you take the babies from that litter that have the genetics you want and breed it back to a pure, thus F2 LH and some may (50/50) depending on genetics of the Pure in this breeding you will get double and single maned babies

Then yet again you breed those babies to yet another 'pure' to get F3 LHs (Again depending on parents 3/4 Double and 1/4 Single)

Then yet again one more time to a 'pure' and then you get a litter of pure LHs (Should be all Double Maned, as that is one trait you want to work towards)

Now not always does this stand true, I mean I have seen papers that have a F1 x F1 Breed and then there babies are F2, well that should be that way, they should still be F1s as they are genetically half LH half something else if not half LH, one fourth this and one fourth that.

As in a general standing the percent of LH blood in the rabbit makes the F gen number:
F1= 1/2 LH and 1/2 something else(s)
F2= 3/4 LH and 1/4 something else(s)
F3= 7/8 LH and 1/8 something else(s)
At the point of quote, unquote "PURE" is just the percent of something elses getting too small to come up, but you still have 'throw backs' of genetics (ie like breeding Harlequin rabbits and getting a REW in the nest box, but your rabbits are papered pure) I mean if you breed the F3 from above to a pure you actually get : 15/16 LH and 1/16 something else(s) and then that pure to another pure you get 31/32 and 1/32 something else(s) and so on and so on

Like a breeding of

F1 Buck (LHxMini Rex) x F1 Doe (LHxNethie) should = F1 litter (all either single or double as parents COULD not be doubles) and genetic speaking they are half LH, 1/4 Nethie, 1/4 Mini Rex, does that sound anymore more pure? NO!


Now, a breeding of

F1 Buck (LHxMini Rex) x F3 Doe (3/4 LH and 1/4 nethie) should = F2 litter (if buck is Single and Doe is Double maned, the litter geneticly should be 50/50) but still they are 5/8 LH, 1/8 Nethie, and 1/4 MR (I think that is right, my math maybe off sorry, but you see the picture)


Now if you want to breed, that is fine. I mean they are your bunnies, but please be aware of the standard people are trying to work towards. I mean I don't think I will EVER see Lionheads be reg. by ARBA as more then a COD Breed, but if they do, I don't want to see people get disappointed by what they thought was a good pure LH rabbit. As if any are Pure. They are some cuties though. Now if you want to breed them into pure LHs I would look for very typey rabbits that are either F3 Or Papered Pures to mix in with them. And of Course work towards and as close to the standard as possible, even if it is a Working Standard (Note, you can show only some colors, heck if I know which, but you can contact LHs National club for that info and working standard). Also, if they said they were LHs you most likely got F1 babies, which does happen to have No maned babies in litters, but with out papers you can't be for sure.

Again, SUPER CRAZY Cute Babies!!!! I demand more pics! I am a sucker for cute babies

 

[kasey08]

Thanks very good information. Like I said I'm just selling as pets. I really did feel bad for there poor bunnys. I asked him if he had adults for sale and he said "If they don't sell past 10 weeks they go in the fridge" And I know it happens everyday and no hurt feelings for ones that do eat rabbits. I'm just not one of them.

 

[MrsFordTN]

Oh I have one of those! We went to buy our LHs actually and the guy had some just dutch mixes. They were only $5 and well I kept looking at them with my sister in law, we he just happen to say when my DH was away that if they didn't sell he was going to put them in the freezer, well guess what extra came home with us...

 

[Bunnylady]

Quote:
So you bought some mixed-breed rabbits that happen to have Lionhead in the mix, and which are from rabbits that are clearly too big to be "real" Lionheads, and you want to breed them to make more mutt rabbits which may or may not have manes to sell to other unsuspecting people as "Lionheads?"

I'm sorry, but I really think a person ought to be familiar with the breed standard, and choose animals that at least come close to it, if they are breeding anything that they intend to call by the name of a breed. If a person chooses to breed mutts, that of course is their business, but I think they should call them that. Calling them anything else is misleading.

And who said I was going to call them pure Lion Heads? You need to get your story straight before you jump down my throat about "misleading". Apparently I was mislead. And I'm just going to sell them as pets. There is alot of wanted adds about pet rabbits.

I didn't say anything about "pure." Rabbit people do outcrosses all the time for various reasons, so the very idea of "pure" when it comes to rabbit breeds is pretty much meaningless. I'm talking about the breed standard (in the case of Lionheads, the working breed standard, since they aren't an accepted breed). Most people expect an animal that is said to be a certain breed to fall within certain parameters that have been set forth for the breed. If I showed you a 3-pound REW adult rabbit, you might believe it was a Netherland Dwarf, but there'd be no way I could convince you that it was a New Zealand. If it had lop ears, you'd know it couldn't be a Dwarf, wouldn't you? That's because you know what Dwarfs are supposed to look like, and they don't have lop ears! By all means, if you want to breed obvious crossbreds, go to it, but please be honest enough with your potential customers to let them know what the rabbits are. I don't know about your area, but around here, most of the people who are advertising for a pet rabbit really want one for free, and wouldn't be willing to go higher than maybe $10 for a mixed breed.

So many people are so eager to jump onto the Lionhead bandwagon, but they don't even know what a Lionhead is supposed to look like. erijn5 breeds Lionheads, and doesn't even know how big they are supposed to be. I have seen 10 pound rabbits with a few wisps of longer hair that were sold as Lionheads. Is the mane the only criterion that determines what is or is not a Lionhead? Yes, you were misled, and you fell for it because you didn't educate yourself first on what you should be looking for. Most people looking for a pet aren't going to educate themselves either, but they usually want a "pet rabbit" that will be 4 pounds or less when it grows up. They often get very confused or maybe pretty angry when their "Netherland Dwarf" exceeds 6 pounds. Since most people looking for a Lionhead for a pet at least know that it is supposed to be a small breed, they may not be happy when their rabbit gets so big it can barely turn around in the dwarf-sized cage they bought for it.

MrsFordTN, the math is very interesting, but in the real world of genetics, anything past half-blood is a mere guess. Because of the way chromosomes behave (even assuming that the chromosomes stay intact), unless the chromosome count of the species is divisible by 4, or 8, or 16, you can't have an animal that is exactly 3/4, or 7/8, or 15/16. And because chromosomes swap material around in unpredictable ways, the animal that your pedigree says is 3/4 ND and 1/4 JW, may actually be something like 57% ND and 43% JW!

 

[dewey]

Quote:
I'm no expert but I think it's a good idea for anyone wanting to raise rabbits to start off with good stock and lots of knowledge in order to try to avert disaster and/or ending up with hard to sell rabbits -- they become destined for the freezer for a reason. Most that use inferior stock with an eye on selling rabbits end up sorely disappointed anyway and quickly abandon the not-so-easy rabbit business. There's lots of good info out there on breeding and how to get started on the right foot.