Rant on Fast Food Rocket Scientists

[Trollkiller]

Quote:
I don't know where you are but this is the contract for Minneapolis Public Schools. http://www.mft59.org/docs/tcon0709.pdf (PDF warning)

This is a pretty standard teacher's contract.

The normal workday of full-time teachers shall be no longer than 7¾ hours including their one-half hour duty-free lunch period. (page 10)

All teachers are entitled to a preparation time and a one-half hour duty-free lunch period every day. When teachers lose preparation time or duty-free lunch periods due to reserve teachers, Special Education Assistants (SEA’s) or other student support staff who are absent, they shall after the principal/supervisor has had an opportunity to find alternative coverage, be paid at hourly flat rate of pay for such lost time. (page 11)

When the following activities are offered, they shall be compensated at the specified rate of pay. Coaches and Coordinators undertaking activities listed in Schedule “D” shall be compensated as follows:
Preparation and supervision of students at the hourly rate of pay
Participation with students in half day or evening events at $95
Participation with students in full day events at $190 (page 199)

(Sample of Schedule D activities. Complete list is on page 199 & 200)

Clubs (such as Photography, Chess...)

Drama: Full Length Plays, District One-Act Plays, School One Act Plays, Homecoming Show, Stage Management

Intramural or Club: Basketball, Soccer, Track & Field, Volleyball, Skiing, Tennis, Wall-climbing, Weight Room, Bowling, Softball

Tutoring, Yearbook,

If you work a game

Event Supervisor, Ticket Seller, Ticket Taker, ............... $25 per Game, Match or Meet Guard, Scorer, Timer, Event Judge, Clerk, Assistant Clerk (page 198)

Point being the teachers that stay late get paid for doing so. The teachers that take extra roles such as faculty adviser to clubs get paid for it. Those teachers that are working the 60-80 hours a week are being well compensated for it. $95 for 4 hours or less of work is some pretty good scratch.

I am sorry if this offends everyone that has bought into the overworked underpaid argument. The numbers are there in front of you.

This by no means takes anything away from the hardworking good teachers.

Edited for spelling. (Mrs. Yarbough tried it just did not stick.)​

 

[PunkerTechnoRoo?ter]

Alright Ill throw my two copper disks in. As part of the generation that is being put through the ringer I have a couple of things to say as Ill always will do when it comes to discussions like this.

First off Id like to thank everyone who used thier own way of saying "I walked up a hill and snow both ways to school and back, barefoot".


Students know when the teacher is trying and when they are not. I had a teacher that gave out the same assignment and the same tests every semester. I graduated and my younger sister was in his class, I actually found my old notebook and gave it to her. Guess what ? Even after two years of me graduating he was stilling using the same assignments and tests. How is that being proactive in education when your teaching plan never changes ? Of course this wasnt always the case. The science teacher everyone knew if you asked him a political question right before class began that he would lecture the entire time on the subject, even on test days.

Some teachers dont teach from the book, they know they have a captive audience so they expound on thier own ideas of history, science, art, english and so forth. Its like these idiot savant college professors that try to brain wash their students to think whatever he believes.
I took offense to it, but I shut up and just did the work and went on. While some kids take it as fact. So if you are taught 25% fact, and then 75% opinion, if its even in the same ballpark as the subject your in, what do you think happens if you believe everything the teacher tells you.

 

[English Chick]

Quote:
You need to be tested for dyscalculia not aspergers.....I am dyscalculic with moderate dyslexia...my son, is dyscalculic (maths)
he is also left handed, I am abidexterous........to this day I still cannot do division without a calculator, I did not let it stop me working in "accounts" I can't do fractions, but am a whizz at percentages.......

You can actually self test for dyscalculia using the many sites available on the net.......

 

[SewingDiva]

Quote:
But I'll bet the kids are still in school the same numbers of days each year. In my state teachers union have fought tooth and nail to keep the shcool year at 180 days.

I'll also challenge the ascertain that all teachers work long hours for low pay because in my town teachers have a pretty good gig and they know it. In my town an experienced teacher makes $65,000 a year at the elementary level. Now remember they only work 180 days a year, so if you prorate that salary out to a full year its more like $120,000.

That's more money than I make, and they have a better health plan than I do too. Plus they have pensions you would kill for.

Phyllis

 

[English Chick]

My son was falling behind in our state school systems in the Uk...(way way behind)....we where lucky enough to put him into private school at 7 (he is now 12)...and have never looked back.....we would never go back to the state sytems for him at least......he is no longer bored...his days at school are long and "action packed"

I put him on the school bus at 7.15am and pick him up again at 6.30pm...his school day starts at 8.30am and finishes at 5.30pm...it is an hours bus journey each way...but at last he is happy, that is what matters. We don't have much of a home schooling policy in the UK...not that I would be qualified enough to help him.

 

[FunnyFarmer]

PunkërTeçhñöRøø§ter :

Students know when the teacher is trying and when they are not. I had a teacher that gave out the same assignment and the same tests every semester. I graduated and my younger sister was in his class, I actually found my old notebook and gave it to her. Guess what ? Even after two years of me graduating he was stilling using the same assignments and tests. How is that being proactive in education when your teaching plan never changes ?

There are always a few bad apples. I had a couple of them myself in high school and also in college. I still think MOST teachers are doing the best they can with a bad situation.

I have several friends who are teachers--I've heard the horror stories. I think our model of education is seriously broken (don't get me started on standardized tests!) and way too many kids come to school without the respect and discipline necessary to learn.

We're fortunate--we can homeschool. I see no reason whatsoever why I should spend hours and hours every week overseeing homework (for a third-grader!) on top of what he is supposed to be doing in school (what DO they do all day, if they're bringing home that much homework, anyway?). It makes more sense to just teach it myself to begin with and then we're done in much less time and can have family time in the evening instead of homework fights. My kids don't bring home bad attitudes and behavior that they learned from other kids, and they don't get sick as often either. Not to say that they're angels, they aren't, but the major influence in their life isn't their peer group at this point.

Another interesting thing. I know that kids are doing more advanced math at the jr high and high school level that we did when I was in high school, but down here at the elementary level they're BEHIND! When I was in school we did double-digit multiplication and long division in third grade. I'm teaching my third grader that now and he's doing fine with it. They don't teach those until the fourth grade now. I have no idea if they make them memorize the multiplication table but my kids have and will.

I don't think the schools need a longer year, they need to make better use of the time they have. My friends with kids in public school tell me about multiple field trips a year (we got one a year when I was a kid), movies, and all these other things that take time away from classroom instruction and work. To top it off, around here the parents often have to pay extra for those frills or their kids can't participate. Talk about a stigma!

Anyway. I could go on all day but I have school, laundry, grocery shopping and livestock chores to do.​

 

[I have WHAT in my yard?]

"The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority, they show disrespect to their elders.... They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and are tyrants over their teachers."


"The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they alone knew everything and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for girls, they are forward, immodest and unwomanly in speech, behavior and dress."

Both of these quotes are questionable in attribute in that they are attributed to Socrates and Plato (there are no original writings by Socrates only writings of others about what he said.....)

Every generation has despaired of the generation that follows it. Our education system is badly broken, but there are few bad guys, just bad ideas perpetuated.

Our system reflects an entire society in decline. Our values have become self destructive for the society as a whole. We cannot blame education for reflecting the norms of the culture in which it exists.

There are awful teachers out there. But there are awful students out there heavily protected by law and parent and system. (When a parent is calling a college professor to plead on behalf of their child something is wrong!)

Teaching was once and should be a highly respected profession. There should not be arguments over it being a “cushy” job or “unearned” pay. They should be the highest paid members of our community right next to doctors and firefighters (who are also severely underpaid). It is our system of only valuing that which produces a profit NOW that causes many of our flaws. It is our belief that we should be rich quickly and with minimal effort that causes our decline. How can we get kids to behave the way we say we want them to when, as a society, we reward the unscrupulous and punish those who follow the rules, and call them suckers??

This isn’t about the generation or the school system it is about us as a people. Our children and our schools reflect what we, as a culture, have chosen to value.

 

[mom'sfolly]

I don't think this is an education system problem; I think it is a parenting problem and a business problem.

Attitudes at fast food resturants and Walmart type stores encourage unthinking transactions. Workers are taught to follow a script and push buttons, not calculate and make desicions. If you press Big Mac, Big Mac, fries, small coke, and then someone asks you to change something, you have to review the entire transaction to see what you have done. The machines are set up to make you not think. If there is a price discrepancy at a large discount store, the cashier is not allowed to make a change, it must be a manager . Making change is something that I was taught at home or in my first job; certainly not at school.

I think the other issue is parenting and a general sense of entitlement. Helicopter parents participate in every aspect of their child's life. The kid is never allowed to make a choice, or fail, or discover their own boundaries. A kid isn't allowed to climb a tree because it is too dangerous, so the kid never learns the physical limits of their body. The kid never gets to choose classes, friends, activities or even meals, mom just signs them up. But if the child doesn't like the sport or activity they are allowed to drop it, or miss practices with no talk of commitments to the team and responsiblities of joining. If there is ever a confrontation between the child and another person, the parent steps in to resolve the issue. What you end up with are people who cannot make choices, people who are taught that any situation they don't like they can leave, and have no idea of conflict resolution. You end up with surly, unhappy people who think the world owes them because they have been shown all their lives that they are more important than anything else, not just to their parents, but in any situation. You have people like my neighbor, who accepted a job and on the first day of work didn't bother to show up or call. She just said something like "I guess I won't be working there".

Just as an aside, I hate the idea of year-round school. I like having time with my children, and I don't think they loose much over summers.

 

[SewingDiva]

mom'sfolly :

Just as an aside, I hate the idea of year-round school. I like having time with my children, and I don't think they loose much over summers.

Oh me too - I don't see a year round school year and longer school year changing that.

Phyllis​

 

[Buster]

Quote:
I don't know where you are but this is the contract for Minneapolis Public Schools. http://www.mft59.org/docs/tcon0709.pdf (PDF warning)

This is a pretty standard teacher's contract.

The normal workday of full-time teachers shall be no longer than 7¾ hours including their one-half hour duty-free lunch period. (page 10)

All teachers are entitled to a preparation time and a one-half hour duty-free lunch period every day. When teachers lose preparation time or duty-free lunch periods due to reserve teachers, Special Education Assistants (SEA’s) or other student support staff who are absent, they shall after the principal/supervisor has had an opportunity to find alternative coverage, be paid at hourly flat rate of pay for such lost time. (page 11)

When the following activities are offered, they shall be compensated at the specified rate of pay. Coaches and Coordinators undertaking activities listed in Schedule “D” shall be compensated as follows:
Preparation and supervision of students at the hourly rate of pay
Participation with students in half day or evening events at $95
Participation with students in full day events at $190 (page 199)

(Sample of Schedule D activities. Complete list is on page 199 & 200)

Clubs (such as Photography, Chess...)

Drama: Full Length Plays, District One-Act Plays, School One Act Plays, Homecoming Show, Stage Management

Intramural or Club: Basketball, Soccer, Track & Field, Volleyball, Skiing, Tennis, Wall-climbing, Weight Room, Bowling, Softball

Tutoring, Yearbook,

If you work a game

Event Supervisor, Ticket Seller, Ticket Taker, ............... $25 per Game, Match or Meet Guard, Scorer, Timer, Event Judge, Clerk, Assistant Clerk (page 198)

Point being the teachers that stay late get paid for doing so. The teachers that take extra roles such as faculty adviser to clubs get paid for it. Those teachers that are working the 60-80 hours a week are being well compensated for it. $95 for 4 hours or less of work is some pretty good scratch.

I am sorry if this offends everyone that has bought into the overworked underpaid argument. The numbers are there in front of you.

This by no means takes anything away from the hardworking good teachers.

Edited for spelling. (Mrs. Yarbough tried it just did not stick.)​

Sounds like a union state to me.... I live in Idaho- a "right to work state". AKA a slave wages state. You have the right to work and they have the right to fire you if they don't like the work. End of story. That contract would probably be a godsend for the people of this state. Not everyone is lucky enough to live in a state where unions take care of things like that for them.​