Read this! You kids will not be able to work on your farm anymore!!

[zzGypsy]

Quote:

Eh, noone will be able to enforce the law.. i wouldnt stress over it.

the problem isn't that they can't enforce it - it's that they will try. maybe not everywhere, but they'll *make an example* of some folks, and that'll cause others to refrain from what they have a legitmate right to do. they'll ruin some folks lives, and use the fear of having that happen to exert control on the rest of us.

government is waaaay to big for it's britches in a lot of areas, and this is one.

write your congressman
write your representative
make some noise

otherwise we'll get what we get. and it won't be what we want.

we're dangerously close to being outnumbered, and overpowered, by people who think they know how we should live our lives better than we do. those people scare the living daylights out of me.

 

[LaynaDon95]

Quote:

the problem isn't that they can't enforce it - it's that they will try. maybe not everywhere, but they'll *make an example* of some folks, and that'll cause others to refrain from what they have a legitmate right to do. they'll ruin some folks lives, and use the fear of having that happen to exert control on the rest of us.

government is waaaay to big for it's britches in a lot of areas, and this is one.

write your congressman
write your representative
make some noise

otherwise we'll get what we get. and it won't be what we want.

we're dangerously close to being outnumbered, and overpowered, by people who think they know how we should live our lives better than we do. those people scare the living daylights out of me.

Very well said.

 

[ivan3]

The final rule has yet to be published (different sections of the Code of Federal Regulations CFR's are updated in order, in numerical groups, throughout the year).

Any citizen could have submitted his/her own comments/counter proposals/revisions for perusal by the Wage and Hour Division of the Department of Labor, up until 11/1/11. Those would have been included in the formal record.

To read the actual language (reasoning of Dept. that includes the history behind the proposal going back to 1938):

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2011-09-02/pdf/2011-21924.pdf

Looks like they're being pretty consistent, i.e., get more `field hands' into school (migrant worker's children in this phase).

I don't consider the `government' an enemy. I consider it to be a tool. As such, knowing how best to use it means spending no time listening to how someone else thinks I should think about how I should use it, or how much I should know about it, or what it is going to do to me if I don't...(fill in the blank). I spend my time with my own hands on the elephant, determining where best to apply the gaff and how best to avoid the shovel and bucket... when possible.

Best place to start: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/search/home.action
(Don't forget State and Local)

 

[zzGypsy]

Quote:

The final rule has yet to be published (different sections of the Code of Federal Regulations CFR's are updated in order, in numerical groups, throughout the year).
Any citizen could have submitted his/her own comments/counter proposals/revisions for perusal by the Wage and Hour Division of the Department of Labor, up until 11/1/11. Those would have been included in the formal record.
To read the actual language (reasoning of Dept. that includes the history behind the proposal going back to 1938):
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2011-09-02/pdf/2011-21924.pdf
Looks like they're being pretty consistent, i.e., get more `field hands' into school (migrant worker's children in this phase).
I don't consider the `government' an enemy. I consider it to be a tool. As such, knowing how best to use it means spending no time listening to how someone else thinks I should think about how I should use it, or how much I should know about it, or what it is going to do to me if I don't...(fill in the blank). I spend my time with my own hands on the elephant, determining where best to apply the gaff and how best to avoid the shovel and bucket... when possible.
Best place to start: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/search/home.action
(Don't forget State and Local)

yep, did that.

now it's time to write your elected officials, as it's what's next to do.
I've already done a round of writing, but since the conversation's up again, probably time to do another.
hope all y'all have your gaffs out and are working on the elephant too... it's a big elephant.

the problem isn't that government's the enemy, and it isn't a tool... a tool just lays there until *you* do something with it. our government is a living organizsm, and it's is filled with people who are perhaps well-meaning and perhaps self-righteous and perhaps control-freaks and perhaps arrogant and think they know better than us. even in the most benign well-meaning cases there are often unintended consequences, and there are *always* applications of new law and regulation that weren't envisioned by the writers. and that's just in the best case, in the worst case, the law and regulation is intended to impinge.

part of the problem as I see it is that government wants what any other organism wants - it has self interests. it wants to survive, propagate, expand, maintain it's resources and gather more. 40,000 new laws were passed nation-wide in 2011... did we have 40,000 problems that rose to the level of needing legislation? that number alone says the system is either self-propagating, or there are people empowered to make law who think the rest of us need regulating. *that* more than anything is what frightens me. along with the essentially unlimited resources, power, and money the government has to enforce new law once it's written.

y'all are familliar with the missouri family that is being fined 4 million for selling a few hundred pet rabbits over 10 or so years? not for abusing the animals, they were beautifully maintained, but simply for not knowing and having failed to apply for a federal license to sell pet rabbits? the government has graciously agreed to reduce their fine to $90,000.00. for a paperwork violation. *that's* what I mean about too big for it's britches, and they *are* making an example of these poor folks. *that's* what happens when an organism seeks to justify it's right to exist. it's not the tool of the *law* or the general mechanism of government that frightens me, it's the angry, self-righeous, or foolish people with the power to wield it with the strength of the government's arm once it's in place that frighten me.

so I hope y'all are on ivan3's link...
make some noise.

 

[ivan3]

zzGypsy wrote: y'all are familliar with the missouri family that is being fined 4 million for selling a few hundred pet rabbits over 10 or so years? not for abusing the animals, they were beautifully maintained, but simply for not knowing and having failed to apply for a federal license to sell pet rabbits? the government has graciously agreed to reduce their fine to $90,000.00. for a paperwork violation. *that's* what I mean about too big for it's britches, and they *are* making an example of these poor folks. *that's* what happens when an organism seeks to justify it's right to exist. it's not the tool of the *law* or the general mechanism of government that frightens me, it's the angry, self-righeous, or foolish people with the power to wield it with the strength of the government's arm once it's in place that frighten me.

Actually, that is not what ultimately happened. The Dollarhite's (bunny people) enlisted their Fed Senators (McCaskill (D)/Blunt (R)) in their cause and the USDA/APHIS settled in 12/11(rumor has it that they fired the inspector with the personal hygiene issues). Of course, the settlement wasn't reported as it didn't comport with the `narrative' of the moment. No fine or other prosecution. They didn't have a license to `push wabbit' so they are on a two year hiatus from bunny sales (read the fine print on one's mortgage and do one's homework before engaging in commerce). From: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/foia/enfo...s/APHIS Case No. MO09099-AC J. Dollarhite.pdf Big, bad Federal Government in your backyard? Sure, it is more likely than it was prior to the Supreme Court Decisions resulting from the majority of the ELECTORATE demanding a war on some drugs and the war on terror (not just consent but DEMAND of the governed). This is conveniently forgotten when the bloggers and infotainment networks go to drumming up audiences for their sponsors (raise the stress hormones of the viewers/listeners just before commercial breaks and they tend to remember the product pitched). Justice Thomas, in his dissent in Ashcroft/Gonzales v. Raich laid it out clean and precise:

...“ In Lopez, I argued that allowing Congress to regulate intrastate, noncommercial activity under the Commerce Clause would confer on Congress a general “police power” over the Nation. This is no less the case if Congress ties its power to the Necessary and Proper Clause rather than the Commerce Clause. When agents from the Drug Enforcement Administration raided Monson’s home, they seized six cannabis plants. If the Federal Government can regulate growing a half-dozen cannabis plants for personal consumption (not because it is interstate commerce, but because it is inextricably bound up with interstate commerce), then Congress’ Article I powers, as expanded by the Necessary and Proper Clause, have no meaningful limits. Whether Congress aims at the possession of drugs, guns, or any number of other items, it may continue to appropriate state police powers under the guise of regulating commerce.”... ...“The substantial effects test is easily manipulated for another reason. This Court has never held that Congress can regulate noneconomic activity that substantially affects interstate commerce… To evade even that modest restriction on federal power, the majority defines economic activity in the broadest possible terms… This carves out a vast swath of activities that are subject to federal regulation.”... ...“If the majority is to be taken seriously, the Federal Government may now regulate quilting bees, clothes drives, and potluck suppers throughout the 50 States. This makes a mockery of Madison’s assurance to the people of New York that the “powers delegated” to the Federal Government are “few and defined”, while those of the States are “numerous and indefinite”. “...

http://wid.ap.org/scotus/pdf/03-1454P.ZD1.pdf Government, in this Nation is, indeed, a tool. That it is used more often by those with the most money for lobbyists and campaign contributions is a structural defect that could easily be corrected if enough citizens cared. An example of how the system is gamed (and how to use government against the grifters): https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/621428/phone-cramming-how-to-beat-the-scam I've always found that the most interesting/difficult problems of governance are local (get to see all the cogs turning - will the system abide?): a most compelling example of this is currently underway in our neck-of-the-woods. It has everything from personal animus to Constitutional issues. The Columbia Paper covered it in depth: http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2012/jan/15/hallsville-farmers-face-eminent-domain/ For the lowdown on the personal animus angle you'll have to sit and sip in our local java joint: As far as the tractor control? Last year, some greenhorn, up the road, didn't check the saturation of the soil in one of his fields, adjoining a ditch, and got himself slowly squashed to death when the bank gave way and the Massey flipped on him. Lessons passed on to the young, here, tend to be inspired by such examples; part of that training, yes?

 

[ChickChickChicky]

Well, it looks like this story is again in the news, and since the thread I started today on the subject was quickly shut down, I'll try reviving this thread.

Under the rules, children under 18 could no longer work “in the storing, marketing and transporting of farm product raw materials.”
“Prohibited places of employment,” a Department press release read, “would include country grain elevators, grain bins, silos, feed lots, stockyards, livestock exchanges and livestock auctions.”
The new regulations, first proposed August 31 by Labor Secretary Hilda Solis, would also revoke the government’s approval of safety training and certification taught by independent groups like 4-H and FFA, replacing them instead with a 90-hour federal government training course.


Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/25/rural-kids-parents-angry-about-labor-dept-rule-banning-farm-chores/#ixzz1t4yurM8N​

 

[TheOutcast]

they are going to try to make me stay away from my beloved chickens

NOOOOO!!!

 

[Symphony]

They won't be able to control me! It'll be over me and my families dead bodies!

 

[zzGypsy]

They won't be able to control me! It'll be over me and my families dead bodies!

well your parents and grandparents are the ones who'll be paying the fines and going to jail... you'll be nice and protected.

call your senators and representatives. write them too. send them email. get your family to do the same.
send them something on this once a week. more often is better.
get your friends and their families to write and contact and complain.
then get them to do it again.

your indignation is excellent, but it's not enough. it needs teeth. do something with it that will help protect your future. if you don't get involved in protecting your way of life, who will?

 

[GhostRider65]

 God forbid kids know how to work, or where their food comes from.

 LaynaDon: Bubble wrap, hahahahaha.

Totally agree with you.....
another ridiculous idea created in Washington.................will these people ever get it???? unlikely because most of them think there food comes from some the super market, and the meat plant. When they wreck the basics of life for very one, and the world falls apart, I hope they are the ones to starve to death.......