Recreating a Mix in the Opposite Direction

[Harmony Fowl]

Just an idea I've been hooked on, not looking to make any new acquisitions or changes until next year, but I'd like to take my flock in a new direction.

Two of my very best layers are Orpington/Ancona mixes. Given that there was only one BO rooster and one Ancona hen in the flock where they originated, they're full sisters. They have a lot of qualities I like. They lay very well and aren't easily thrown off laying by stressors. They're attractive, medium sized birds with interesting personalities. They inherited a good bit of the Ancona nervousness, which makes them vigilant and successful free rangers. One has gone broody, the other has not; the one was a good mother but is not excessively broody. I'd like to see more of all these things.

What I like is the Ancona traits mixed with the larger breed. I've thought of a handful of breeds I might like to cross with Ancona, which naturally suggests using an Ancona rooster over my choice of a variety of hens. Given larger stock like Orpingtons, this has the additional advantage of a smaller rooster not being so damaging to the larger hens.

Now the question: Can I expect similar results if making the cross in reverse? The birds I like came from an Ancona mother and an Orpington father. If the parents are switched, will that change anything?

 

[Chickassan]

It might change some things, mainly color related though.
I'm guessing you don't care about color as long as they're good productive birds right?

 

[Harmony Fowl]

It might change some things, mainly color related though.
I'm guessing you don't care about color as long as they're good productive birds right?

It would definitely take a backseat to production. My idea is to bring purebred birds back into my flock at intervals in the future should they prove to become too large, too small, not productive enough, or just too inbred. It isn't really about a goal as about continuing to aim back toward what I want with my choices for the next generation.

 

[Chickassan]

Right, got you! The thing iv'e noticed in my own breeding dabbling is that chicks tend to take on more of the mother's physical characteristics. Big mom, big babes small mom small babes. They tend to inherit a slightly lopsided amount of the father's personality more so than the mother. So your plan should give you mostly the results you're wanting. I use mostly because you're always going to have "one of those chicks" that just goes against all genetic reasoning they're the prize in the chicken cracker jacks. You get them, have no idea what they are...but you keep them because they're neat.

It would definitely take a backseat to production. My idea is to bring purebred birds back into my flock at intervals in the future should they prove to become too large, too small, not productive enough, or just too inbred. It isn't really about a goal as about continuing to aim back toward what I want with my choices for the next generation.

 

[Egghead_Jr]

Why not breed those F1 birds you like so much. You must of had a cockerel from that cross and can use him. That resulting F2 generation will be all over the place in respect to size. From Ancona body type to Oprington. Pull out of that the body type you are looking for and sell the rest.

You've no worry of inbreeding as the parent stock was two completely different breeds. You could breed the offspring willy nilly for many years before seeing any loss of vigor or defects.

 

[Harmony Fowl]

Why not breed those F1 birds you like so much. You must of had a cockerel from that cross and can use him. That resulting F2 generation will be all over the place in respect to size. From Ancona body type to Oprington. Pull out of that the body type you are looking for and sell the rest.

You've no worry of inbreeding as the parent stock was two completely different breeds. You could breed the offspring willy nilly for many years before seeing any loss of vigor or defects.

Unfortunately, I don't have a boy from them. The hens are two years old now. They came as hatching eggs from a family member's flock and the rest came from other mothers. I've been all over the place with my goals for the last 2+ years with my chickens. After two years, I'm finally figuring out what I want. It so happens that I have about five chickens I really like and that's it, lol. The rest are nice, I enjoy them, but they have more sentimental attachment than they have what I've come to value in a chicken. Without scrapping them all and starting all over, I'm trying to steer the flock in a different direction. Though starting all over is sounding better and better.

 

[Harmony Fowl]

Right, got you! The thing iv'e noticed in my own breeding dabbling is that chicks tend to take on more of the mother's physical characteristics. Big mom, big babes small mom small babes. They tend to inherit a slightly lopsided amount of the father's personality more so than the mother. So your plan should give you mostly the results you're wanting. I use mostly because you're always going to have "one of those chicks" that just goes against all genetic reasoning they're the prize in the chicken cracker jacks. You get them, have no idea what they are...but you keep them because they're neat.

Because they lay so well, these two hens' eggs get selected for incubating pretty often and I've gotten to see a dozen or so offspring by them. Physically, from the F1 moms, the chicks take after the rooster A LOT. One father was a tall, thick bird; the other tall and skinny. All the offspring fall into one or the other, not really any like the moms. Neither rooster had the best personality; though initially they seemed okay, we ended up culling both at a later age for aggression. I didn't think hens could be so mean, but wow, some of their offspring. Some so sweet, others attacking your feet for existing. At any rate, more food for thought. It makes me extra careful about selecting a rooster. Our current roo is a Wyandotte mix who is pretty great, but so far his only offspring are still very small and truthfully, I don't know which hens they came from.

 

[Chickassan]

You need to keep a journal so you can keep up with what you have going on.
I keep one, the most useful section is things I shouldn't repeat and why not.
Small depressingly so, section of pairings that were really good "at least to me".
It is handy when you're trying to breed to suit your preferences.

Because they lay so well, these two hens' eggs get selected for incubating pretty often and I've gotten to see a dozen or so offspring by them. Physically, from the F1 moms, the chicks take after the rooster A LOT. One father was a tall, thick bird; the other tall and skinny. All the offspring fall into one or the other, not really any like the moms. Neither rooster had the best personality; though initially they seemed okay, we ended up culling both at a later age for aggression. I didn't think hens could be so mean, but wow, some of their offspring. Some so sweet, others attacking your feet for existing. At any rate, more food for thought. It makes me extra careful about selecting a rooster. Our current roo is a Wyandotte mix who is pretty great, but so far his only offspring are still very small and truthfully, I don't know which hens they came from.

 

[nicalandia]

Can I expect similar results if making the cross in reverse? The birds I like came from an Ancona mother and an Orpington father. If the parents are switched, will that change anything?

Many studies have shown that broodiness, egg-laying ability are sex linked, this will mean that the future cross will be more Ancona in temperament and laying traits

 

[Harmony Fowl]

Many studies have shown that broodiness, egg-laying ability are sex linked, this will mean that the future cross will be more Ancona in temperament and laying traits

Sex linked in the sense of being linked to the Z chromosome? So the Ancona X hens with an Ancona father would inherit their laying traits from that breed? Just trying to elaborate a little for my own understanding.