Reforming an aggressive rooster (project)

[LaurenRitz]

This was started on another post. For reference, I have included the initial comment from @triciayoung and my response. Since the post about training roosters belongs to someone else, I have kept only the link and the six steps of the training.

At the bottom of this initial post is my comment from this morning.

If a person has enough self confidence to let them have that perceived power, they will win with respect to a relationship with their rooster. And it will be a relationship like no other. Roosters are very deep loyal friends.

But how do you set up that relationship? I've had a rooster for about a month, been spurred multiple times. If I turn my back on him, he attacks. If I face him down, he attacks. If I ignore him, he attacks. This behavior has to stop or he'll end up culled, and that's the last thing I want.

I am pretty certain that retreating will only make matters worse. He attacked from behind once when I opened the pop door, and no way I'd done anything to earn that one.

He objects to me bringing treats, going near his girls or near the coop. Have you ever heard a bird growl? Well, he does whenever I'm in sight.

For the first couple days he was fine, but once he decided this was HIS territory, the truce was over.

He's great with the girls, his reaction to predators is perfect. In all other ways a perfect rooster, and I would like to keep him.

A relationship on those terms would seem to be impossible.

I was out in the coop just now, refilling their water after closing up, and he came down off his roost to growl at the pop door. I don't see any way to establish a "relationship" under those conditions.

Aggressive roosters: How I tame mine with love in 6 simple steps​

Chicken careChicken behavior

6 steps to end your rooster’s aggression

Step 1: When you’re not training your rooster, do not allow him to attack you.​

Step 2: Change your rooster’s dominant/submissive mentality into a partnership

Step 3: Get down at your rooster’s level—communicate through eye contact, body language, and a kind tone of voice.​

Step 4: Reinforce good behavior with food
Step 5: Begin small movements and reward any positive behavior.

Step 6: Teach your rooster not to attack when you’re not training​

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Now, my response from this morning:​

Poor, confused kid. In Rooster, what you're saying is that by showing him I was still willing to fight (not backing down immediately and watching him all the time) I was telling him that our flock positions weren't established yet, but I acted otherwise like the dominant rooster.

I have noticed that there's never any conflict with the younger rooster. The senior rooster completely ignores him. Which made me suspect that I was somehow being chicken-autistic and missing social cues.

So this morning I got all armored up (I feel like that kid in The Christmas Movie) and when they all came out into the run I completely ignored him. He just scuttled out of the way. We'll see what happens tonight.

 

[Mrs. K]

I bet you both like to play with fire, right?

I admire your determination to make this work. Just a couple of things to consider, and then I will just follow this post with interest.

• These type of birds are opportunistic, they will take the battle on if at their advantage, from behind, or from a position of height. Beware
• They will be much more willing to attack smaller people as in children or small women. If you can be positive, you are the only one risking the attack continue as you are.
• They get better and better at attacking, more violent and more aggressive. Most become much more confident about their ability to win the fight.

Personally, I think limited training started after the attacking has begun is too little too late, I will be interested if this really works. I think you need to train them to respect your space the moment you realize they are a rooster.

Mrs K

 

[SourRoses]

This thread needs to come with a liability disclaimer for Backyard Chickens in the inevitable case someone gets injured.

WARNING: You or someone you know may lose eyesight, or life.


At the very least, do not get down on the rooster's level.
Remember: random posters on the internet don't care about your wellbeing as much as you do / should.

 

[Brooks_]

I really like the broomstick method for training.

 

[LaurenRitz]

I used to work with autistic kids, and various animals. The first step to successfully training is understanding the motivations of whoever you’re working with.

In the case of a rooster it would be a mistake to attribute human motivations to the animal. I have to understand what he's thinking, not what a human would be thinking.

In this case, by not being a predator and being around, I have established myself as part of the flock. I am the provider, so I must either be mother or rooster.

That means I don't fit within the hen hierarchy, but the rooster hierarchy.

My problem is that I was (and am) inexperienced. The first time he attacked me I was shocked and instinctively knocked him out of the air. He came at me again with the same result, but ever since I have been wary, watching and waiting for the next attack.

It seems that by watching him, facing him directly and other behaviors I have been unconsciously indicating aggression, which as a rooster he is hardwired to respond to.

I have been indicating, without knowing it, that I don't consider my position in the flock secure--that I still feel a need to fight him for supremacy.

And while that is a battle he can't win, it's a battle I can't win either. I don't want to be in a constant battle with him.

I am going to try this another way, modifying the information in the article linked above as necessary.

This morning I think there was progress. Him not growling at me this evening was also progress.

 

[centrarchid]

I have kept lots of roosters, lots. Generally, it has not been a training approach as much as me not providing rewards for bad behavior. In most situations I have seen on this site, the training was taking the rooster in the wrong direction. And the rooster-keeper did not realize that and would more likely that not get combative with the rooster making everything worse. Then comes the "freezer camp" tropes.

I'd be focusing first on the rooster-keeper looking at how he/she behaves around the rooster before giving any advice. My favorite approach is to have the rooster keeper post a video demonstrating how the keeper and rooster get on before and during altercations. Most of the time you can see the relationship is not ideal even before it comes to blows.

 

[Shadrach]

The strangest thing of all to me is we are talking about a 5 kilo max bird more often than not v a human at least 10x that bodyweight. When someone brings me a 50 kilo rooster I might be worried.

 

[centrarchid]

I think you need to thank this part of your mind and respect its wisdom, hard earned from thousands of years of human breeding to not die too quickly.
I say this, in part, because I've long noticed people dismissing those instincts in themselves as if they were foolishness or useless or meant to be overcome.

Nurture vs Nature is always the big question.
If an animal was abused... gentleness, patience, and consistency are the solution. I apprenticed with a natural horsemanship trainer working with abused horses, and my own horse had been abused, so I have a mentality of approaching animals softly. I'm versed in learning theory.
Yet I would not take this approach with roosters. Because cockerels will get like this regardless of how they are treated, unless they have a particularly docile personality (which is what everyone should be breeding for).
Think about the flock instinct - several hens to one rooster. Yet an even ratio of female and male chicks hatch out. The males are meant to fight for their place.
What we want from chickens is different from what nature wants. So, we have to be more diligent in our selection.
I tell you, other people or your own expectations can make you feel like you're doing something wrong when the other is not cooperating... but you can't force self-control on another living being. You can't make him smart enough to realize his food source should not be killed for being in his space.
I've raised enough roos now that I can definitely say, you raise them the same and out of a batch of 20 cockerels, odds are one will be nicer. Smarter. Out of a hundred you can get one truly special.

The terms of survival have changed.
This is the test:
Can you get along with humans?

Anecdote:
My favorite roo, Clifford, we have done nothing special with. No convincing him that we are nice humans, and I never defer to him while walking around or avoid paying attention to my hens in his presence. And he does have presence, he's huge!
Yesterday he was covered in blood. Not his.
A nasty feral rooster came by and got its hiney kicked. At one point, it thought it could hide in the bushes, and Clifford is too big to get him out. So, my mom used a stick to thrash the bushes and get the intruder out... then she wound up with roosters fighting at her feet. At no point did Clifford see mom as an enemy, even as the intruder fled and Clifford's blood was still up. He's still a bit stressed over it all, but we don't have to watch our backs around him.
And I'm not just bragging on him, because he's not the only one. There are lots of friendly roosters out there.

This is why a lot of us get a bit... insistent about the fate of mean roos. Because we've experienced enough of both to learn the hard lesson and wish to save others the trouble.

It does not take abuse to get them to be mean. It can be as simple as a miss match in behaviors between chicken and human.

 

[Mrs. K]

^^ me too Brooks, but trying to be open to new ideas. I have never taken to abuse.

 

[Mrs. K]

I free range them all day, which means I need to be armored whenever I go outside. I find myself changing plans so as not to upset the silly birds. Eliminating or avoiding tasks that are going to make noise, e

Which makes it appear that the human is being trained, not the bird. You are walking around on eggs shells. Trying not to incite the bully. Some women or abused people live like this with an aggressive person.

We ranch, we deal with intact males all the time. Pay huge sums of money for them. Several weighing close or more than a ton. We are aware, and vigilant, careful with our children and grandchildren. They free range in pastures of thousands of acres, and are closer to a wild animal, than a domesticated one. They are gathered twice a year, we have corrals, and chutes, all designed to safely work cattle. It is not real common, but over the years, we have heard of experienced people being tossed or killed by an aggressive bull. Same goes with stallions. As stated above, there can be non human aggressive stallions, but I have also seen them driven off with a rope in a pasture to protect riders. I have seen where one bit a 6 foot man, lifted him off of the ground and shook him.

You ask what is success: My chickens are my hobby, my enjoyment, and because they are domesticated, I deal with them closely every day. I do not want a thumping, I don't a sneak attack, I don't want to be scarred. I want a 5 foot respect boundary around me, no matter where I am in the coop or what I am doing there.

If I don't get that, they are gone.

Mrs K