Regrets on sand in run?

[M_Struna]

I currently have a dirt run and am considering adding sand. I started with sand in the coop. My young girls had been sleeping in two of the nesting boxes until I blocked them off. Prior to doing this I just scooped the poop out of them every 1-2 days. When I pulled the sand out of the boxes to block them, apparently there was enough urine in the sand that now the coop has taken on an odor that I can’t seem to get rid of, no matter how much barn lime, Saturday lime and PDZ I add to it. The plan is to remove it all, paint the walls and do hemp bedding in the next couple weeks, whenever the weather warms a bit. That said…I am having reservations about sand in the run. It’s covered but gets some moisture in certain areas when it rains. I’m planning on doing roll up tarps and putting up clear plastic roofing panels on the corner that gets it most. I don’t care to have the same odor in the run that I’m dealing with in the coop, although it would obviously have much better ventilation. My question is, has anyone done sand, horse pellets or other material in their run under similar circumstances and then gone back to dirt?

 

[ChickyCh00k]

Depending on where you live (you can add this info to your profile), sand may not be ideal. Many people swear by it and use it in coop and run (though I've not heard of it being used in nest boxes...).

The most frequent advice you'll see for run flooring is woodchips and/or material that will degrade over time (dry leaves, grass clippings, etc.). With a covered run, the material will not degrade as quickly (if it isn't getting frequent moisture), but you can rake it once in a while to mix in the poops.

I started with sand in my covered run. I live in Michigan, so we get hot summers and cold winters and everything in between. I found the sand to be not so great - I was scooping poop multiple times/day (and at that time I only had 8 young pullets - I can't imagine what it would be like with the 20 hens I now have ). The run also started to smell not so great in a fairly short period of time, despite scooping poo multiple times/day. So I came here for advice.

Woodchips was the consensus. I have been using them ever since. I tried to get as much sand out as possible (we put about 10" in our run), but there's still several inches of it under the woodchips, which does not help with the degradation process.

If I were you, I would ditch the sand everywhere and use woodchips in the run. As for the coop, advice would depend on whether you have poop boards under the roosts or not.

Just a side note: Chickens don't "urinate", but their poo does contain urates (the white stuff on top of the poo) and ammonia, which is what you may have been smelling. With sand, it's pretty important to clean poo daily IMO.

There are many other members here who have more experience than I and I'm sure they'll have additional (possibly better) advice! Good luck! It's always a bit of trial and error with these things!

 

[M_Struna]

I am in NE Ohio, so our climate is similar to yours. As for sand in the nest boxes, we just filled the entire coop with it before we moved the pullets in since it’s all one floor. Unfortunately, they immediately took to the boxes instead of the roost bars. With the boxes blocked off they started huddling outside their favorite box but are now finally starting to roost.

See, I’m so glad you responded because I was thinking the same thing with the sand. The main reason I was leaning toward sand is that I’m quite allergic to the pine shavings I initially used in the coop. But I’m not altogether impressed with the sand. Maybe the wood chips won’t cause my allergies to flare as much since they’ll be outside. I have no aversion to cleaning poop on a regular basis, but I can’t always get to it daily. I don’t go longer than every two days, but most times I feel like that’s too long! My ten poop a lot!

You’ve helped me decide not to go with sand. I’ll give the wood chips a try and if I have problems they’ll be easy enough to remove. I’m not familiar with how to purchase. Do you buy from a retailer or get them from a local mill?

I already have the hemp for the coop. I hope I’m not allergic. We’ll see. I currently do not have a poop shelf but plan on putting one in. I live on a dairy farm and was going to lay down feed bags, as some folks have suggested, a use hemp and some PDZ on the bags. But I am very open to suggestions.

Thanks so much for your thoughtful response. It’s helped so much.

 

[ChickyCh00k]

Are your roosts higher than the nest boxes? If the roosts aren't higher than the nest boxes it will entice the chickens to sleep in them. They want to be as high as possible while roosting.

As for sourcing woodchips - I started with cypress mulch from Lowe's and/or Home Depot, then I signed up for ChipDrop, which is a service wherein arborists in your area will dump woodchips in a specified location at your home. It's technically free for this service, but I have found that if you pay $20 (which is the cost to cover the arborist's fee, the delivery tends to happen sooner - they only charge you if they make a delivery). There may also be some place near where you live that has free woodchips if you can haul them away, or other places that will deliver mulch in bulk (for a higher cost than ChipDrop, but guaranteed delivery).

I have found poop shelves to be an integral part of managing my coop cleanliness, but many people here use the deep bedding method with great success. Hemp is a good option for the floor either way, but if you install a poop shelf, the poop will be much easier to scoop if you only put PDZ on it (or PDZ and sand). Hemp is difficult to sift in my experience.

With poop shelves the floor stays virtually poop-free (unless you have them locked in the coop for long periods), and then you only need to worry about a quick poop scoop from the shelf, into a bucket, then onto a compost pile

If you're interested in using the deep bedding method, you could start a new thread asking about how to do it properly (or someone may respond to this post), or search the forum for "Deep Bedding in Coop" - you'll likely get a ton of results . I don't have any experience with that method, but LOTS of BYC members do!

 

[GApeachmama]

I had sand in my approximately 120 sq foot covered run and approximately 25 sq ft coop. I had a great little scoop to help clean it. Problem was the scoop was little. Between the size and my innate laziness it became overwhelming to maintain that way. I’m currently switching to a mix of wood chips and hemp so I can deep litter it. I have a decently sized garden that could use the compost. I’m just putting the wood chips and hemp on top of the sand. (Reference previously mentioned laziness ) Supposedly it will help with any needed drainage. I did take most of the sand out of the coop before putting the hemp. I’m not using the wood chips in the coop due to moisture concerns.

 

[M_Struna]

Are your roosts higher than the nest boxes? If the roosts aren't higher than the nest boxes it will entice the chickens to sleep in them. They want to be as high as possible while roosting.

As for sourcing woodchips - I started with cypress mulch from Lowe's and/or Home Depot, then I signed up for ChipDrop, which is a service wherein arborists in your area will dump woodchips in a specified location at your home. It's technically free for this service, but I have found that if you pay $20 (which is the cost to cover the arborist's fee, the delivery tends to happen sooner - they only charge you if they make a delivery). There may also be some place near where you live that has free woodchips if you can haul them away, or other places that will deliver mulch in bulk (for a higher cost than ChipDrop, but guaranteed delivery).

I have found poop shelves to be an integral part of managing my coop cleanliness, but many people here use the deep bedding method with great success. Hemp is a good option for the floor either way, but if you install a poop shelf, the poop will be much easier to scoop if you only put PDZ on it (or PDZ and sand). Hemp is difficult to sift in my experience.

With poop shelves the floor stays virtually poop-free (unless you have them locked in the coop for long periods), and then you only need to worry about a quick poop scoop from the shelf, into a bucket, then onto a compost pile

If you're interested in using the deep bedding method, you could start a new thread asking about how to do it properly (or someone may respond to this post), or search the forum for "Deep Bedding in Coop" - you'll likely get a ton of results . I don't have any experience with that method, but LOTS of BYC members do!

Are your roosts higher than the nest boxes? If the roosts aren't higher than the nest boxes it will entice the chickens to sleep in them. They want to be as high as possible while roosting.

As for sourcing woodchips - I started with cypress mulch from Lowe's and/or Home Depot, then I signed up for ChipDrop, which is a service wherein arborists in your area will dump woodchips in a specified location at your home. It's technically free for this service, but I have found that if you pay $20 (which is the cost to cover the arborist's fee, the delivery tends to happen sooner - they only charge you if they make a delivery). There may also be some place near where you live that has free woodchips if you can haul them away, or other places that will deliver mulch in bulk (for a higher cost than ChipDrop, but guaranteed delivery).

I have found poop shelves to be an integral part of managing my coop cleanliness, but many people here use the deep bedding method with great success. Hemp is a good option for the floor either way, but if you install a poop shelf, the poop will be much easier to scoop if you only put PDZ on it (or PDZ and sand). Hemp is difficult to sift in my experience.

With poop shelves the floor stays virtually poop-free (unless you have them locked in the coop for long periods), and then you only need to worry about a quick poop scoop from the shelf, into a bucket, then onto a compost pile

If you're interested in using the deep bedding method, you could start a new thread asking about how to do it properly (or someone may respond to this post), or search the forum for "Deep Bedding in Coop" - you'll likely get a ton of results . I don't have any experience with that method, but LOTS of BYC members do!

We revamped the coop a little. Built a raised poop board and subsequently raised the roost bars. Removed half the sand. The nesting boxes are at floor level and blocked off. All ten were cramming themselves into one of them every night. Now they cuddle puddle in front of it every night. So I’m still sifting quite a bit. They do roost at times during the day and I see what you mean about the shelf. It’s a game changer! I hope they take to the roost bars at night…sooner than later! This coming week we’re removing the remainder of the sand in the coop and going with hemp.

I’ve gone with hemp in the run. It took two 44# bales to cover the ground roughly 3-4”. I just love it. No odor. Low dust. I go in there a couple times a day and kick hemp over the exposed poop. So clean. I’ll probably be needing to add a little more soon. Idk how it’ll work out in the long run, but right now it’s great.

 

[ChickyCh00k]

We revamped the coop a little. Built a raised poop board and subsequently raised the roost bars. Removed half the sand. The nesting boxes are at floor level and blocked off. All ten were cramming themselves into one of them every night. Now they cuddle puddle in front of it every night. So I’m still sifting quite a bit. They do roost at times during the day and I see what you mean about the shelf. It’s a game changer! I hope they take to the roost bars at night…sooner than later! This coming week we’re removing the remainder of the sand in the coop and going with hemp.

I’ve gone with hemp in the run. It took two 44# bales to cover the ground roughly 3-4”. I just love it. No odor. Low dust. I go in there a couple times a day and kick hemp over the exposed poop. So clean. I’ll probably be needing to add a little more soon. Idk how it’ll work out in the long run, but right now it’s great.

That sounds like a pretty good setup! Feel free to post pics!

How old are the birds? If they're still relatively young, they should get the hang of roosting as they get older. You can also try placing them on the roost when it is dark at night.

 

[Susan Skylark]

I was initially all over sand (for an outdoor rabbit hutch for quail). I don’t use it in the winter and we don’t get a ton of rain, plus the birds love their dust bath and endless grit options. I went through 75 pounds in 6 weeks! My son hated scooping it daily. When it did get wet it was stinky and had to be replaced. It was also incredibly heavy. Nope, not a sand fan! I now use horse bedding pellets supplemented with dry leaves or grass clippings when seasonally available, much better! If you have great drainage and little organic material and a strong back, sand is awesome, but bird waste is highly concentrated organic material and even without weather, most watering systems (at least with quail) provide excessive moisture.

 

[M_Struna]

That sounds like a pretty good setup! Feel free to post pics!

How old are the birds? If they're still relatively young, they should get the hang of roosting as they get older. You can also try placing them on the roost when it is dark at night.

I’m feeling better about it. The coop has some inherent design flaws. If I had a do-over I’d spend more time researching other options. That said, I’ll have to live with the things that can’t be altered. My first concern is the health and safety of the girls. Second is making the coop and run as easy to maintain as possible so that when winter hits I don’t find myself regretting this little hobby of mine. I’ll post some photos once I get the coop straightened around, hopefully by next weekend.

They’re 12 weeks old. They roost everywhere during the day. Just not at night. I can’t even get in the coop to try and put them on the bars at night because they’re huddled up against an in-swing screen door. I’m hoping they just need to mature a bit.

 

[M_Struna]

I was initially all over sand (for an outdoor rabbit hutch for quail). I don’t use it in the winter and we don’t get a ton of rain, plus the birds love their dust bath and endless grit options. I went through 75 pounds in 6 weeks! My son hated scooping it daily. When it did get wet it was stinky and had to be replaced. It was also incredibly heavy. Nope, not a sand fan! I now use horse bedding pellets supplemented with dry leaves or grass clippings when seasonally available, much better! If you have great drainage and little organic material and a strong back, sand is awesome, but bird waste is highly concentrated organic material and even without weather, most watering systems (at least with quail) provide excessive moisture.

That’s what I was finding in the coop. The sand was taking on an odor, despite daily cleaning. And it’s dry! The more I thought about it, putting sand in a run that was more apt to get wet just didn’t sound like a great idea. And the dust! Good lord, the dust! I’m happy with hemp in the run and cannot wait to rid the coop of the slightly odorous sand that’s in there. I had actually thought about horse pellets, but I’m so allergic to pine shavings and I wasn’t sure how I’d react when those broke down. People seem to be very happy with them. And they sound fairly cost-effective.