Respiratory illness question

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Isaiah53

Isaiah53

Songster
Jan 8, 2018
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Osoyoos BC Canada
As I've been reading, it seems clear there're some serious respiratory illnesses and others that aren't as serious.

I am curious as to how to determine this, besides taking one to the vet for a necropsy.

Last winter I noticed one of my hens have a cough/sneeze and wheezing..I separated her and placed her with a hen that had been straining to pooh and I had been cleaning her bottom for several weeks to get whatever was stuck out. That "constipated" hen never got sick from the one with the wheezing and cough/sneeze. I put a spare rooster with them and added two more hens one I thought had a cough /sneeze but was fine otherwise, another that had scissor beak and was being picked on. I've since put one down that seemed to develop a wheeze and I did not want to risk any other issues developing..The others are still together. One still sneezes/coughs occasionally but the others are not. They are nowhere near the rest of my flock nor does the balance of my flock show any symptoms of respiratory issues and its been 9 months now.

Where do we draw the line at culling for this? Should I cull the "sick" ones. Do I cull any in the main flock if they start to cough /sgeeze/wheeze? They're all laying typically, they're eating like normal. Active not listless. I just don't know when to cull in these instances. Do I cull all 80+ of my chickens and restart? It's just something I was pondering

Any insight as to what to do? And FTR, the vet said culling the "sick" ones is probably wise. JUST IN CASE. But if they were seriously sick before (9 months ago) eating, sleeping, drinking sneezing/coughing with the main flock, yet no more showed this, either they are carriers or never were sick. I just want to know what to do. If I give eggs away for hatching or chickens away is there risk from my main flock that they can pass something on? Does it just seem crazy to cull all of them, or should I just cull the 4 I separated 9 months ago?
 
I know Canada is different but I always use the veterinary school for a necropsy. It is usually cheaper and/or more extensive/conclusive than a regular vet.
Some vets here will do them but most will send the bird to the vet school and charge an extra fee for the service.
One really has to know what the illness is before they can make the determination if the answer is cure or cull.
Disease is the result of direct and indirect causes. Direct can be a virulent pathogen (bacteria, virus, fungus, protozoa, parasite, etc.). Indirect problems come from stress, nutritional deficiencies/excesses, insufficient ventilation, injury, poisons, etc..
IMHO, if you have frequent problems with disease, you either have a management issue or fragile genetics which should indicate culling and starting over.
I've kept a lot of birds (up to 100+) for a long time in various types of housing and I can't really point to any disease that has been an issue for them.
Perhaps I've been lucky or it is a result of vigorous genetics and good management.
When it comes to respiratory issues, I think ventilation is the key. I'm not talking about little vents and small windows. I'm talking about ventilation that closely resembles being outdoors. The last buildings I built have both east and west walls that are 1/3 open. The prevailing wind blows right through - at roost height. I'm not from the school of thought that chickens can't be exposed to a draft.
Respiratory issues just never happen here.
Usually the only way I lose a chicken is either to a predator or heart attack. The necropsies have never indicated a disease, it is either heart attack or cancer.

I read a quote in Gail Damerow's 'Chicken Health Handbook' that is from Fred P. Jeffrey, a professor of poultry science. In it he "advocates the rigid culling of all snifflers, droopers, feather rufflers, poor eaters and pale-headed birds to be sure they don't reproduce their kind."
 
My chickens are free ranged on 2 acres, they are in an open barn that was made for horses so open, with ends a side and a roof. The roof has a 5 inch ventilation system running the length and width.
Winter we had a tarp to cover the main opening to prevent snow drifts and rain. This last month we built doors but the ventilation is fantastic in there.

I read Damerows' book. Part of my reason for asking. I wonder just how many are this rigid in culling and just how necessary it really is. I suppose it's different schools of thought? My vet used to work in the Netherlands and handed large breeding facilities. Culling was what they did. So he's an advocate of it. He says it's pretty difficult by a necropsy to determine why a chicken died unless it very obvious. (Heart, lungs liver, excessive parasites). And sending off samples for testing is ridiculously expensive. So I'm left with is it worth it?
 
Do you know what Guelph University charges?
In the states, prices vary dramatically. In some states, like CA, they're free. Some are prohibitively expensive. I'm in MO and it costs around $100 for a complete workup with cultures of all tissues of a live bird they euthanize or a carcass I send. I used to do my own cursory necropsies which sounds like what you're talking about. Since I started exclusively raising an extremely rare breed, it is essential that I know why a bird died and if any treatment of my other birds is indicated. While $100 is a lot, I find it an acceptable cost to keep abreast of possible issues. The write-ups are extensive and they look for any and every possible avian pathogen, not just organ abnormalities.
It depends on one's threshold for financial pain. I think I've had them do 5 or so by now and I've found it worth it.
 
Since you have so many birds, I would cull any sick birds that seem very sick. Your chickens may all be carriers, but some may have good immunity to whatever you have in the flock. I would let the ones who are healthy and not showing disease live until all the chickens are gone. The best way to control a disease is to get healthy chickens, not add any new birds, and once they are gone get a new healthy flock.

To completely get rid of a contagious respiratory diseases such as infectious bronchitis, mycoplasma, coryza, ILT, there have to be zero birds left, and the area needs to be free of birds for several weeks. If there are frozen droppings that may be extended to months. At that point you can start out with new birds from a hatchery. Getting birds from other sources is always a gamble that diseases will be introduced.

Here is a good link about the various diseases and symptoms:
http://extension.umd.edu/sites/extension.umd.edu/files/_docs/programs/poultry/FS-1008 Recognizing and Preventing Mycoplasma gallisepticum (MG) Infecti....pdf

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps044
 
Last edited:
ChickenCanoe said:
Do you know what Guelph University charges?
In the states, prices vary dramatically. In some states, like CA, they're free. Some are prohibitively expensive. I'm in MO and it costs around $100 for a complete workup with cultures of all tissues of a live bird they euthanize or a carcass I send. I used to do my own cursory necropsies which sounds like what you're talking about. Since I started exclusively raising an extremely rare breed, it is essential that I know why a bird died and if any treatment of my other birds is indicated. While $100 is a lot, I find it an acceptable cost to keep abreast of possible issues. The write-ups are extensive and they look for any and every possible avian pathogen, not just organ abnormalities.
It depends on one's threshold for financial pain. I think I've had them do 5 or so by now and I've found it worth it.
Click to expand...


I'd have to see if there's something closer by than Guelph. Not sure if transport services are even available for dead animals that far across the country. But I'll ask my veterinary. None of my chickens are showing any symptoms of any illness nor have they since I pulled those ones out 9 months ago. I guess I wanted to get an idea how most backyard breeders handle such situations as it seems like there's two extremes cull everything or just put up with it.

A lady I was chatting to bought some chickens from a breeder near her and learned they had infectious coryza and told me she had to cull her whole flock. That's why I was pondering this.
 
Hopefully, someone else in your area of Canada may know where you could just get some testing. Coryza or ILT are 2 diseases for which I would cull. Infectious bronchitis is not as bad, and once chickens get well, they only can spread it for up to a year. MG or mycoplasma can be found in some backyard flocks. It can be mild or more serious causing sinus infection and conjuntivitis. All of those can be separate or a chicken may have one and another as a secondary infection, which makes it worse. Aspergillosis is a disease from mold, which can affect breathing, and spread through air sacs to all parts of the body. It can be accompanied by any of the diseases above. So do a little reading, and compare what you are seeing. Get testing if you find where to get it. Then make plans. Diseases can come more quickly during periods of stress such as freezing winter weather, molting, and broodiness. Good air circulation high up from one end of the coop to the other side can help, as well as preventing ammonia odors, mold, and dust.
 
Call Guelph, they may either know of some government poultry labs closer to you or they may send you a shipping label.
Our vet school will send a FedEx label for shipping the carcass. Then you pay for the shipping when you pay for the necropsy. I think the university gets a discount on shipping.
Besides vet schools, almost every country has government livestock diagnostic labs. It is important for continuity of the human food supply for nations to keep livestock disease under control.
 

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