Results from First Year with Deep Litter Method

[Beekissed]

Yes, I agree. I don't have to really encourage my birds to stir the litter...they seem to toss it around about once or twice a week, now that I have a coop with a soil floor. I'm thinking that the bugs that feed on the fecal matter are being hunted with some vigor as they will move the entire top layer of that litter from one side of the coop to the other on some days. Then I find myself just forking the litter back to the rear of the coop so that it doesn't build up where I come in and out, on occasion, but mostly they will get around to tossing THAT litter towards the back of the coop the next time they shovel through the litter.

Free ranging changes everything in a chicken's life....all for the good...so one doesn't have issues like impacted crop, sour crop, eating of bedding, etc. with a free range system.

 

[beccaporter]

3. Straw. Everything I've heard and experienced says straw is the absolute worst item to use in a chicken coop. What works best are small bits of lightweight items that the chickens can fluff easily. I use my own yard scraps exclusively. I dry and then bag up grass clippings and leaves. Right now I have seven of those huge construction site garbage bags full of grass and leaves to head into the winter. It's lovely stuff to use first, because it's free! Second, because it makes the coop smell nice when I drop it in, and third, because it's a good "brown" to add to the "green" of manure and kitchen scraps to enable composting to occur.

I have first hand experience. My sister and I split an order of chickens 14 weeks ago. She put down straw and we put down pine shavings plus DE. Within a month I couldn't get near her coop without gagging. My coop is still going deep litter style and is perfectly lovely even when I poke my head in. She has since converted to pine shavings/ DE.

 

[amenfarm]

Thanks, Beekissed and WoodlandWoman, very helpful. Can you also address this question, it's got me baffled. The original author of this post said:

"Every day or so I throw in 1-2 tubs of scraps, intentionally aiming to drop the scraps right under the perch where most of the manure has fallen. This is a very important step to get the birds to turn under the fresh manure as they are in the process of scratching for the scraps. "

I understand why this is good for manure and compost management but it seems counter to good sanitation. Doesn't this mean the chickens are eating scraps coated with chicken poo? I currently have 16 chickens of 14 weeks old on a 14 foot wide roost. They generate a good amount of poo each night, which I currently catch on plastic trays. I scrape the poo into my compost pile. It's a good sized pile every morning, as I'm sure everyone already knows. I'm trying to imagine all that poo staying on the deep litter (worked into the compost or not, either way), then throwing food scraps right on top of it. I try to keep the poo and food separated but this method puts them purposefully together.

Thoughts?
Guppy

I'm not bee or woodlandwomen, but I feed scrapes in a large dog crock. That way if they don't like something I don't have to go all over removing it. I do throw down black oil sunflower seeds (BOSS) the girls scratch everything around, so I don't have to rake as often and I don't step in fresh piles gathering eggs, always a plus. I prefer not encouraging them eating in their own feces.

 

[Beekissed]

Got a question for you all. Bee had suggested I do the deep litter method in my chicks run. The run is dirt bottom and wire sides and no roof on it except for poultry wire. So that would mean it would get wet every time it rains. I am in the south and it stays very humid here so I worry about mold big time. How would you go about putting this method in on my area with no roof for a cover to keep it dry when it rains? ALSO wondering something else here to...... we have a small area behind our house that my brother in law made for his cows to go from one pasture to another. I call it the cow path. Anyway it has gates and they are locked so they don't stay in this area, just a coming and going area and they don't come and go every day through there so there's not lots of cow poop or anything back there. BUT there is lots of leaves and pine straw so I am wondering IF I can rake that for the chicks run and use it for my deep litter method IF you guys still think I can do this with no roof over their run? I can dump the grass clippings in there to. Their run is probably like 14 foot wide and a good 80' long.

Rose, your run is wet anyway when it rains? Usually this presents itself with a slimy, stinky and humid run with puddles in some areas, high spots in others and it stays wet unless there are several dry days and a good breeze...does that sound right? Harmful bacteria and mold LOVE this kind of soil and, though you cannot see it, they are thriving there and being picked at and eaten by your birds as they go about their chickeny lives. Cocci love that kind of a run!

Now, imagine that same space with a ground cover of debris much like the forest floor. The soils under the leaf, bark, twig, pine needles and such will start to become more loose and aerated as bugs and worms start moving in under this cover. The soil is less impacted by foot traffic because the litter is a cushion. Excess moisture is wicked away from the top layer and absorbed into the bottom layers as the soils become looser and more able to absorb excess moisture, so your birds are not walking directly on moist, slimy, fecal covered soils. The feces is washed into the bedding with each rain and digested by the composting due to the binding of the nitrogenous feces with the carbonaceous litter and the bugs living and thriving there do the rest~feeding on the manure and the healthy bacteria/yeasts in the litter.

A whole thriving ecosystem starts to grow where only packed down, barren soil was before and water no longer stands in stagnant pools breeding who knows what in the humidity of your climate. The only molds growing are those that are beneficial to the composting of the litter and will not harm the birds. The birds will have something to do, searching in the litter for the bugs and worms to be found there(that is, as long as you don't shower it with DE) and can derive more protein for their diet. The smells are digested by the litter and flies no longer find the run as attractive because it just smells like...dirt.

Rose, I wouldn't use grass clippings in your climate because of the humidity, but I would certainly use the litter you describe in your cow path. With a run that big, you might also contact the local tree removal companies and offer them a place to dump their ground up tree debris. Asplundht(sp) is one such company who will gladly bring you large loads of chipped up trees because they have to pay in order to dump that in the landfills. I know folks who let them dump it on their farm so they can use it for garden mulching, bedding in animal pens and coops, etc.

Thanks, Beekissed and WoodlandWoman, very helpful. Can you also address this question, it's got me baffled. The original author of this post said:

"Every day or so I throw in 1-2 tubs of scraps, intentionally aiming to drop the scraps right under the perch where most of the manure has fallen. This is a very important step to get the birds to turn under the fresh manure as they are in the process of scratching for the scraps. "

I understand why this is good for manure and compost management but it seems counter to good sanitation. Doesn't this mean the chickens are eating scraps coated with chicken poo? I currently have 16 chickens of 14 weeks old on a 14 foot wide roost. They generate a good amount of poo each night, which I currently catch on plastic trays. I scrape the poo into my compost pile. It's a good sized pile every morning, as I'm sure everyone already knows. I'm trying to imagine all that poo staying on the deep litter (worked into the compost or not, either way), then throwing food scraps right on top of it. I try to keep the poo and food separated but this method puts them purposefully together.

Thoughts?
Guppy

Guppy, I would never dump actual food scraps on top of my litter for the birds to 'scratch into the bedding" for a few simple reasons. Some food scraps won't get eaten and will sit there and rot, attract gnats and flies and won't do a bit of good..they will sit and mold/decay. The second is for the reason you mentioned...I don't put their food where they poop. They are bound to consume some manner of fecal material in their lifespan but actually placing large pieces of food on the manure isn't something I would do. This is one reason I don't recommend folks scattering their feed in the run for them to "have fun scratching and pecking"...that's okay on occasion and if they are using a deep litter that digests manure, but on a barren run littered with high levels of fecal matter, it's just not sanitary to be eating past poop every day and compounding intestinal pathogen and parasite loads.

In the winter I have scattered BOSS in areas where feces is most likely to be deposited on days when they are confined to the coop for deep snows but these are slick and tiny seeds that do not adhere to feces like, say, a broccoli spear would. The BOSS is small enough to filter down past any fecal matter and must be searched for, thus would indeed cause the feces to be moved and worked into the bedding without it actually having much contact with the seeds.

But...that's a rarity and only when I have BOSS on hand and the birds have been confined for several days. Usually I don't have much concentrated feces in the coop as my birds free range all the time.

 

[RoseMarie1]

Rose, your run is wet anyway when it rains? Usually this presents itself with a slimy, stinky and humid run with puddles in some areas, high spots in others and it stays wet unless there are several dry days and a good breeze...does that sound right? Harmful bacteria and mold LOVE this kind of soil and, though you cannot see it, they are thriving there and being picked at and eaten by your birds as they go about their chickeny lives. Cocci love that kind of a run!

Now, imagine that same space with a ground cover of debris much like the forest floor. The soils under the leaf, bark, twig, pine needles and such will start to become more loose and aerated as bugs and worms start moving in under this cover. The soil is less impacted by foot traffic because the litter is a cushion. Excess moisture is wicked away from the top layer and absorbed into the bottom layers as the soils become looser and more able to absorb excess moisture, so your birds are not walking directly on moist, slimy, fecal covered soils. The feces is washed into the bedding with each rain and digested by the composting due to the binding of the nitrogenous feces with the carbonaceous litter and the bugs living and thriving there do the rest~feeding on the manure and the healthy bacteria/yeasts in the litter.

A whole thriving ecosystem starts to grow where only packed down, barren soil was before and water no longer stands in stagnant pools breeding who knows what in the humidity of your climate. The only molds growing are those that are beneficial to the composting of the litter and will not harm the birds. The birds will have something to do, searching in the litter for the bugs and worms to be found there(that is, as long as you don't shower it with DE) and can derive more protein for their diet. The smells are digested by the litter and flies no longer find the run as attractive because it just smells like...dirt.

Rose, I wouldn't use grass clippings in your climate because of the humidity, but I would certainly use the litter you describe in your cow path. With a run that big, you might also contact the local tree removal companies and offer them a place to dump their ground up tree debris. Asplundht(sp) is one such company who will gladly bring you large loads of chipped up trees because they have to pay in order to dump that in the landfills. I know folks who let them dump it on their farm so they can use it for garden mulching, bedding in animal pens and coops, etc.

Guppy, I would never dump actual food scraps on top of my litter for the birds to 'scratch into the bedding" for a few simple reasons. Some food scraps won't get eaten and will sit there and rot, attract gnats and flies and won't do a bit of good..they will sit and mold/decay. The second is for the reason you mentioned...I don't put their food where they poop. They are bound to consume some manner of fecal material in their lifespan but actually placing large pieces of food on the manure isn't something I would do. This is one reason I don't recommend folks scattering their feed in the run for them to "have fun scratching and pecking"...that's okay on occasion and if they are using a deep litter that digests manure, but on a barren run littered with high levels of fecal matter, it's just not sanitary to be eating past poop every day and compounding intestinal pathogen and parasite loads.

In the winter I have scattered BOSS in areas where feces is most likely to be deposited on days when they are confined to the coop for deep snows but these are slick and tiny seeds that do not adhere to feces like, say, a broccoli spear would. The BOSS is small enough to filter down past any fecal matter and must be searched for, thus would indeed cause the feces to be moved and worked into the bedding without it actually having much contact with the seeds.

But...that's a rarity and only when I have BOSS on hand and the birds have been confined for several days. Usually I don't have much concentrated feces in the coop as my birds free range all the time.

Thank you Bee. Now wondering IF it will be ok to leave what I have already added to the run with the grass clippings? It was two large wheel barrows full of it along with some leaves and pine straw. They are keeping the stuff all stirred up. lol Today it rained and I noticed they even fluffed it up after the rain.

 

[Beekissed]

It will be fine in a run the size of yours, so no worries. They will keep it scattered and dried out...but the problem with adding grass clippings to a run environment is that the birds can get crop impaction from their eagerness to consume green stuff. When they eat grass out on forage, the pieces they eat are very small...about 1/4-1/2 in. long only. And they pick and choose their forage from the tender and easy to digest leaves and stems...when given grass clippings they can't really do that and so they gobble anything they can get.

In a run the size of yours you could really have fun providing them with good, tender grass in a healthy manner by building some grass frames and growing them their own foraging spots.

Here's a link to show examples of such. This shows just plain grass but that doesn't give much variety, so I'd mix some White Dutch Clover, some fall fescue and other grasses that will provide different types of nutrition at different times of the year. You can even sow kale or beet seeds there for cool weather eats. Get creative and you can give your chickens a safe foraging experience right in that super nice run of yours.

http://www.thegardencoop.com/blog/2012/02/07/grazing-frames-backyard-chickens/


All of these good steps you are taking to ensure your birds are healthy are going to pay off big time over the years of your flock husbandry and you will be so glad you put in the efforts it took to keep them healthy instead of trying to MAKE them healthy! Just think...bug, worms, good bacteria and greens all under foot and then the fermented feeds. With smart yearly culling for good genetics and immune systems you could have a flock that never experiences illness and produces enough to pay for their feed and your work. That's priceless!

 

[RoseMarie1]

It will be fine in a run the size of yours, so no worries. They will keep it scattered and dried out...but the problem with adding grass clippings to a run environment is that the birds can get crop impaction from their eagerness to consume green stuff. When they eat grass out on forage, the pieces they eat are very small...about 1/4-1/2 in. long only. And they pick and choose their forage from the tender and easy to digest leaves and stems...when given grass clippings they can't really do that and so they gobble anything they can get.

In a run the size of yours you could really have fun providing them with good, tender grass in a healthy manner by building some grass frames and growing them their own foraging spots.

Here's a link to show examples of such. This shows just plain grass but that doesn't give much variety, so I'd mix some White Dutch Clover, some fall fescue and other grasses that will provide different types of nutrition at different times of the year. You can even sow kale or beet seeds there for cool weather eats. Get creative and you can give your chickens a safe foraging experience right in that super nice run of yours.

http://www.thegardencoop.com/blog/2012/02/07/grazing-frames-backyard-chickens/


All of these good steps you are taking to ensure your birds are healthy are going to pay off big time over the years of your flock husbandry and you will be so glad you put in the efforts it took to keep them healthy instead of trying to MAKE them healthy! Just think...bug, worms, good bacteria and greens all under foot and then the fermented feeds. With smart yearly culling for good genetics and immune systems you could have a flock that never experiences illness and produces enough to pay for their feed and your work. That's priceless!

LOL well it was so nice and cool after the good rain today I raked it and got the pitch fork and got it outta there. So now I am back to dirt again. Thanx Bee, love how you teach! Someone said you had a website and I sure would like the link. I am out here with the chicks now and it's hard to focus because they are running around eating and I'm trying to watch all these roosters so I can see WHICH ones I want to keep. Just saw one standing up to one of the BA roosters and I NEED to get me some tags for their legs! Thank you again Bee!
LOVE the idea of the boxes with the greens! Haven't eve thought about that in there. Man that would be awesome and I could close off that area to them until it got larger so they could have at it. Or would I need to close it off? I have seen those boxes made so they can't dig at the roots and what such a good idea for my run. They are some really happy chickens. Like I said it's hard to focus on the computer when they're making their happy sounds. lol I've been out here letting them free range and trying to teach my dog chasing them is a no no. He's doing very good and they came right up to him awhile ago and checked him out and he was sniffing of them and they allowed it. I was shocked they came right up to us with him with me. I've had him out with me a lot here lately so I guess they're getting used to him now.

EDITED TO ADD, I thought it was 2 wheel barrows full but it was FIVE construction wheelbarrows full! LOL And that was wet so it packed down. Had no idea I'd put THAT much in there already! Anyway now it's out so I don't have to worry about that!

 

[Beekissed]

Rose, I took that website down because I lost interest in building it. God just took all that out of my heart and so I just dropped it. If you ever need to ask a question, I check her often and you can always PM me.

 

[RoseMarie1]

Rose, I took that website down because I lost interest in building it. God just took all that out of my heart and so I just dropped it. If you ever need to ask a question, I check her often and you can always PM me.

Oh ok, that's fine. Just thought you were posting your info on there and I wanted to be able to get at it.

Thank you for letting me know.

 

[RoseMarie1]

Rose, your run is wet anyway when it rains? Usually this presents itself with a slimy, stinky and humid run with puddles in some areas, high spots in others and it stays wet unless there are several dry days and a good breeze...does that sound right? Harmful bacteria and mold LOVE this kind of soil and, though you cannot see it, they are thriving there and being picked at and eaten by your birds as they go about their chickeny lives. Cocci love that kind of a run!

Now, imagine that same space with a ground cover of debris much like the forest floor. The soils under the leaf, bark, twig, pine needles and such will start to become more loose and aerated as bugs and worms start moving in under this cover. The soil is less impacted by foot traffic because the litter is a cushion. Excess moisture is wicked away from the top layer and absorbed into the bottom layers as the soils become looser and more able to absorb excess moisture, so your birds are not walking directly on moist, slimy, fecal covered soils. The feces is washed into the bedding with each rain and digested by the composting due to the binding of the nitrogenous feces with the carbonaceous litter and the bugs living and thriving there do the rest~feeding on the manure and the healthy bacteria/yeasts in the litter.

A whole thriving ecosystem starts to grow where only packed down, barren soil was before and water no longer stands in stagnant pools breeding who knows what in the humidity of your climate. The only molds growing are those that are beneficial to the composting of the litter and will not harm the birds. The birds will have something to do, searching in the litter for the bugs and worms to be found there(that is, as long as you don't shower it with DE) and can derive more protein for their diet. The smells are digested by the litter and flies no longer find the run as attractive because it just smells like...dirt.

Rose, I wouldn't use grass clippings in your climate because of the humidity, but I would certainly use the litter you describe in your cow path. With a run that big, you might also contact the local tree removal companies and offer them a place to dump their ground up tree debris. Asplundht(sp) is one such company who will gladly bring you large loads of chipped up trees because they have to pay in order to dump that in the landfills. I know folks who let them dump it on their farm so they can use it for garden mulching, bedding in animal pens and coops, etc.

Guppy, I would never dump actual food scraps on top of my litter for the birds to 'scratch into the bedding" for a few simple reasons. Some food scraps won't get eaten and will sit there and rot, attract gnats and flies and won't do a bit of good..they will sit and mold/decay. The second is for the reason you mentioned...I don't put their food where they poop. They are bound to consume some manner of fecal material in their lifespan but actually placing large pieces of food on the manure isn't something I would do. This is one reason I don't recommend folks scattering their feed in the run for them to "have fun scratching and pecking"...that's okay on occasion and if they are using a deep litter that digests manure, but on a barren run littered with high levels of fecal matter, it's just not sanitary to be eating past poop every day and compounding intestinal pathogen and parasite loads.

In the winter I have scattered BOSS in areas where feces is most likely to be deposited on days when they are confined to the coop for deep snows but these are slick and tiny seeds that do not adhere to feces like, say, a broccoli spear would. The BOSS is small enough to filter down past any fecal matter and must be searched for, thus would indeed cause the feces to be moved and worked into the bedding without it actually having much contact with the seeds.

But...that's a rarity and only when I have BOSS on hand and the birds have been confined for several days. Usually I don't have much concentrated feces in the coop as my birds free range all the time.

Bee I know where such a pile of this is. My niece and nephew let the tree company pile the chipped up trees at the end of their drive and it's been piled there for a year or more now. Will have to check with them and see IF they mind if I get some of it for my run to mix in with this stuff. I had thought about buying 2-3 of those cubes of pine shavings but if I can get it for free and they're not planning on using this, I'd rather go that route and save that money for something else I'm in need of. I don't mine a little work. ;-) I've talked to my hubby about this idea and he really likes it. To start out he wasn't wild about getting chickens but I think it's growing on him now. ;-) He actually told me tonight when he gets up in the morning he would let them out so they could free range. WOW he gets up much earlier than I do. In fact I need to hit the hay right now. lol Am up reading on here instead. ALSO wanted to tell you..... I have just the 2x4's to do those frames with for the seeds to. I'll just have to get me some hardware cloth to do them with. I think I am going to go ahead and make them until I can get my hardware cloth and they will be all done and ready. Also need to start checking out the run to see where the sun is most of the day in it so I can put the wooden frames in that area.