Rhode Island Reds but look very different?

Was wondering where you got the information to support such sweeping and questionable generalizations?..........
Just to give one among several examples.....Cackle Hatchery New Hampshires and Rhode Island Reds look nothing alike..........The owners of that hatchery say that their flocks date back to the 1930's and that even though both breeds have been "commercialized" neither has been crossed with other breeds.....Their Cherry Eggers and Production Reds look about as one would expect since they cross their NHS and RIRS.........Admittedly, hatchery stock is not of the same quality as Exhibition/Heritage birds, but the idea that all hatcheries sell low quality, crossbred junk is far from the truth and serves no useful purpose, that I can see, and only turns off a large segment of poultry raisers who are not as dogmatic as some breed "purists.".........The implication that hatchery operators are nothing but a bunch of shysters is also very unfortunate from an industry/hobby standpoint since nothing could be farther from the truth......

First, let me correct any misunderstandings that I despise hatchery stock. I do not, and in fact the overwhelming majority of chickens that I have purchased over the past 50 years have been from hatcheries. Nor do I despise Production Reds. They are generally superior layers to heritage RIRs and NHs, and since my main priority in raising hens has been egg production, the vast majority of reds that I've had over the years have been Production Reds. As for where I got the information to support my generalizations, here is a summary. First, there are a number of internet articles that refer to the history of the Production Red and how it has come to dominate the hatchery and brown egg laying market. I'm in the midst of a move to Montana and don't have time to do a detailed search and post of all the links, but you can certainly do one yourself to confirm what I'm saying. Second, this issue has been discussed many times on BYC threads and it has been thoroughly demonstrated in these threads by heritage breeders such as Fred's Hen's and Chris09 that what hatcheries are producing and labeling as RIRs and NHs are in fact Production Reds and not heritage RIRs/NHs. You don't have to take my word for it, you can search through their posts for yourself and read their comments on this issue. In fact, you will find some of those internet articles that I mentioned quoted by them. I particularly remember reading some of the articles posted by Chris09. You can also PM them yourself and ask them about PRs vs. heritage RIRs/NHs. As far as the claims of the hatcheries, many of these hatcheries that claim a history of heritage birds sell "New Hampshire reds," a sure sign that it is a Production Red and not a heritage New Hampshire as there is no such bird as a New Hampshire "red." The correct breed name is just a "New Hampshire." Many of these same hatcheries also sell their Easter Egger hybrids under labels "Ameraucana" or "Araucana." So much for their claims. Having said that, I will give Cackle credit in the fact that I believe they have a level of honesty that is lacking in most other hatcheries. They do indeed sell their Easter Eggers as "Easter Eggers" rather than Ameraucanas, and while our heritage RIR/NH breeders at BYC would still label Cackles RIRs and NHs as PRs, at least Cackle does not market their NHs with the word "red" on the end, and I do believe that Cackle does make some attempt to keep their birds closer to SOP standards that most other hatcheries. So perhaps with Cackle there might indeed be a small distinction between a hatchery quality RIR, a hatchery quality NH, and and PR.
 
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I've had lots of birds from McMurray, and have been overall very happy with them. Several of the Rhode Island Reds had some white to their earlobes, evidence of crossbreeding with a white-lobed breed, most likely Leghorn. But they were/are otherwise attractive birds that lay extremely well, and the cockerels also made good meat birds, and so I really like them.
X2 on some white in the earlobes of MM's RIRs. I've had the same thing happen with some of Ideal's RIRs as well, and I had the occasion white feather pop up in their RIRs as well. Obvious evidence of an infusion of White Leghorn blood in them at sometime in the past to boost egg production. Even with Cackle Hatchery, there is an obvious difference in the appearance of their RIR breeding stock (top picture) when compared to a heritage RIR bred by a reputable breeder (bottom picture). The much darker, richer feathering and deeper body of the heritage RIR is immediately evident, even at just a glance. Again, there is nothing wrong with these hatchery quality RIRs/NHs/PRs. I've had many of them myself (including RIRs and NHs from Cackle), and they are great layers of large brown eggs, but they are not going to be able to compete with the heritage RIRs and NHs in poultry shows.
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http://readebaker.com/images//Rhode Island Red.JPG
 
X2 on some white in the earlobes of MM's RIRs. I've had the same thing happen with some of Ideal's RIRs as well, and I had the occasion white feather pop up in their RIRs as well. Obvious evidence of an infusion of White Leghorn blood in them at sometime in the past to boost egg production.


The McMurray RIR rooster I kept was beautiful, I called him Shimmer. But your post reminded me of something I had totally forgotten.... He had a single solid white hackle feather, only noticeable when you held him and brushed his hackle feathers up towards his head. I also vaguely remember a pullet or two having a white feather as well. So like you say, very likely some White Leghorn was crossed in at some point to boost egg production. They did an excellent job of breeding it back out though, some of the MM RIR hens have laid the darkest eggs of any breed I've kept.
 

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