Rooster balance problems - how big is the chance of Marek's?

[5GodsDown]

Hi everyone

Roo: Black Phillip
Race: mix Ayam Cemani and something else
Age: about 9 months
Issue: looking tired, depressed, has trouble keeping balance (doing the split sometimes, clenches claws), neck held a little bit backwards, sometimes lets his wings hang
Duration: stopped crowing a week ago (daylight saving time), looks sick for 4-5 days

My poor Phill isn't himself anymore. He still walks around, though very slowly. He eats a little bit, but not enough I think. He can still get into and out of the coop in the morning/evening, but he doesn't roost anymore. He still tries to mate with the chickens, but it doesn't work as he doesn't grab them by the neck anymore...

Here's a bit of the history: I have 3 chickens born in April. They were vaccinated (at the hatchery) for bird flu and marek. Black Phillip came into my care at the end of July (age: 5 months). Now at the age of 9 months I think he's showing signs of Marek's. My chickens have only ever come into contact with chickens from the same hatchery with the same vaccinations. His former owner, a hobby breeder, didn't have problems with Marek's. She thinks he couldn't have contracted it from her or my chickens. They do freeroam so Phill could have contracted it from a wild bird without my chickens showing signs, but he's been with us for 4 months and is barely a little chick anymore at the age of 9 months. I realise there is a possibility it's Marek's, but how big are the odds?

I went to the vet with him yesterday. She's not a specialist but spent 30 minutes on him. She suspects a neck injury, which I also considered a possibility as 2 days before he got sick a chicken sabotaged the automatic door (don't know how to explain) and the door fell shut. He was still inside and agitated. Maybe he got stuck under the door and pulled himself out?

He received a shot of painkillers and vitamins and I'm supposed to continue them for a few days to see how he reacts to them. I put the food on eye level for him this morning and I saw him eating when I left for work. If it doesn't get better we always have the poultry clinic an hour away, but I'm not sure what the use is if nothing changes... I really love him and I hope he will get better. He's been nothing but great for the chickens.

 

[Eggcessive]

Unfortunately, it sounds like Mareks disease. It can be confirmed with testing and a necropsy at a poultry lab after death. They test any tumor tissue or feather shafts for the disease. A head or neck injury may mimic the neurological signs of Mareks though. Since the breeder had Mareks on her property, it doesn’t just disappear. It can linger in the environment for years since it is spread through dust and dander. Any birds left on the premises, would have been carriers and passed it on. The vaccine takes at least 2 weeks to take effect, and the chick cannot be exposed to the disease during that period.

 

[Folly's place]

I hope he's been injured, and recovers. This story about the previous owner's flock, and other birds brought into that flock, really doesn't sound too good to me.
By all means have testing done, either live tests, or necropsy if he dies. you need to know, one way or another.
Mary

 

[5GodsDown]

He's walking!! Not very elegantly, but he CAN move. I put him with the chickens to eat a last bit before going to sleep and when I came back I couldn't find him. He had managed to climb the stairs to their night accommodation! (how do you call the house they sleep in?). I still put him separately as he was attacked by a chicken last week and I don't want him to get hurt now. Step by step, but he's such an amazing sport.

Wonderful news, and great photo!
I guess your avian vet did a nice job, in spite of the naysayers here? You stuck with him, in a very tough situation, and this is fantastic, good for you!
Mary

I can't say I've encountered naysayers here. If someone thinks they can help me out of their own experience then they should of course share that, even if it's not the same as the vet's diagnosis. The meningitis diagnosis of the vet was probably incorrect and I think what really helped him were the vitamins from my usual non avian vet and the muscle stuff he got this week from the avian vet. And I'm pretty sure my caring for him with the aid from the members here also helped a lot. I think it's difficult to correctly diagnose a chicken in this case, I called the vet today and she was puzzled, but happy and says we're going to keep looking. Fecal testing will be done next week.

 

[5GodsDown]

I just received a call from the vet! He has coccidiosis! I've never been so relieved with a bad result I'm so glad I asked for a stool test. There's still a chance he also has mareks, but touching wood! It's still a bad result, but at least there's a possibility he will fully recover.

 

[5GodsDown]

Well... he pushed himself up with his right leg yesterday evening and this morning he was even standing on it briefly. I guess Black Phillip wants to pull a miracle on Black Friday? I'm still somehow in denial he is getting better, but this did convince me to give him more time.

I'm also a member of a very nice Belgian/Dutch chicken community on Facebook and I was contacted by one of the admins yesterday. She advised me to go back to the poultry clinic and have a stool test done in the lab, not just looked at. I don't exactly know how to explain this in English, but in any case the goal is to find enterococcosis or a mycoplasma infection. She's had 4 similar cases in the last 8 years of which 2 made a full recovery, one is recovering now and one died of heart failure. According to her the typical recovery time was 6-8 weeks. This wouldn't necessarily give me any hope if he hadn't stood up. Now I think I might try this approach. It doesn't hurt to try to get some other testing done and him standing up on one leg counts as a very visible improvement, so he's absolutely getting more time!

 

[boskelli1571]

Hi everyone

Roo: Black Phillip
Race: mix Ayam Cemani and something else
Age: about 9 months
Issue: looking tired, depressed, has trouble keeping balance (doing the split sometimes, clenches claws), neck held a little bit backwards, sometimes lets his wings hang
Duration: stopped crowing a week ago (daylight saving time), looks sick for 4-5 days

My poor Phill isn't himself anymore. He still walks around, though very slowly. He eats a little bit, but not enough I think. He can still get into and out of the coop in the morning/evening, but he doesn't roost anymore. He still tries to mate with the chickens, but it doesn't work as he doesn't grab them by the neck anymore...

Here's a bit of the history: I have 3 chickens born in April. They were vaccinated (at the hatchery) for bird flu and marek. Black Phillip came into my care at the end of July (age: 5 months). Now at the age of 9 months I think he's showing signs of Marek's. My chickens have only ever come into contact with chickens from the same hatchery with the same vaccinations. His former owner, a hobby breeder, didn't have problems with Marek's. She thinks he couldn't have contracted it from her or my chickens. They do freeroam so Phill could have contracted it from a wild bird without my chickens showing signs, but he's been with us for 4 months and is barely a little chick anymore at the age of 9 months. I realise there is a possibility it's Marek's, but how big are the odds?

I went to the vet with him yesterday. She's not a specialist but spent 30 minutes on him. She suspects a neck injury, which I also considered a possibility as 2 days before he got sick a chicken sabotaged the automatic door (don't know how to explain) and the door fell shut. He was still inside and agitated. Maybe he got stuck under the door and pulled himself out?

He received a shot of painkillers and vitamins and I'm supposed to continue them for a few days to see how he reacts to them. I put the food on eye level for him this morning and I saw him eating when I left for work. If it doesn't get better we always have the poultry clinic an hour away, but I'm not sure what the use is if nothing changes... I really love him and I hope he will get better. He's been nothing but great for the chickens.

The threat of Mareks is always there, keep it in the back of your mind and continue to work the theory that maybe he had a head/neck injury. A head injury can cause most of what you are seeing too.
Did the person you got him from have the flock vaccinated against Mareks?

 

[Eggcessive]

Most literature says that the most accurate testing is testing tumor tissue and feather shafts with a PCR test, done after death. There are labs around the world that may test a single feather shaft, so it is possible that there are newer tests available. Any test can have a false negative reading giving false hope, so money may be better spent doing testing with a necropsy after death.

Mareks have 4 types of symptoms—tumors on skin, on nerves, in organs, and on nerves in the eyes. Some chickens only have one of those, while others have more. During a necropsy, these tumors along the sciatic nerves if there is leg paralysis or numbness, or any spotted tumors on internal organs, may be cultured and tested by PCR test which to my limited knowledge involves DNA testing.

I would probably try to contact your nearest poultry lab in Belgium or Europe and ask what might be available. It also is good to research how and where to get a necropsy if he dies, since that would involve keeping his body cool, not frozen, and delivered to the poultry lab as soon as possible.

Chickens do not always die of Mareks, some may survive, but may have a need for supportive care for the rest of their lives. @rebracora is a BYC member familiar with Mareks in her own flock who lives in England, and she might know more about where to find testing if you send her a PM.

 

[boskelli1571]

That doesn't sound bad. How is she doing? Can she walk normally? Does your hen have the Mareks form that attacks the nerves? I mean, I can't let Phill live the way he does now, he can barely take 3 steps. He is extremely selfless and seems to want to do nothing else than protect his ladies and if he can't do anything but stand or lie down in one spot all day... okay for 1-2 weeks of needed rest, but not his entire life I have tried to give him some mashed boiled egg, but he just refuses to eat it unless the hens are eating from it too. The hens leave him alone, although they were pushing against the wire I put between them.

One moment I'm full of hope he will recover and the other moment I'm almost in tears because I realize I might have to let him go. It doesn't help I have long working days and I can only check how he's walking and eating in the morning. In the evening it's dark and I can only check if he's alive.

My he was one of 10 chicks I bought - 8 died from Mareks. I did not think she would survive b/c she had trouble with walking and balance. She was so skinny too. I fed her a high protein (20%) mash with vitamin water added along with some dried oregano mixed in.
It took a long time but she put on a bit of weight and she can walk although very pigeon toed, her balance is still a bit off but she uses her wings to balance. She will fly up to around 3ft. off the ground to perch and can balance well enough when perching.
She lays eggs just fine and is now going through her first molt, poor thing, but she is bright and alert and always comes to see me when I enter the barn.
Sending positive thoughts your way, hope Phil turns it around soon.

 

[5GodsDown]

That is good that they found he has coccidiosis, but unfortunately many chickens who have Mareks or other viruses that caused decreased immunity, can suffer from coccidiosis. But at least this can be treated. Is the vet going to treat with amprollium, a sulfa antibiotic, or something else? Keep us posted on your Phil.

Of course, that has crossed my mind, but at least I can do something now and if it doesn't work, I at least tried. I agree his symptoms are too much like Mareks, so the other only option could be a severe vitamin deficiency because of the coccidiosis.

The chickens are getting baycox through water now and I'll trinkle some water in Phil's beak in the morning, lunch and evening, because I know he's eating little bits, but I haven't seen him drink. When I carefully pour water into his mouth he does drink it himself luckily. I also made him a little dish this morning to mix into his food: mashed egg, some crushed mealworms, herbs (oregano and kurkuma) and a little bit of broken corn because he likes that. He's separated so he can eat and drink in peace, but he can still see his chickens. He's safe from wind and rain. I think I'm doing all I can and we'll see whatever the outcome is. I still inquired about the options to send his body in for necropsy should he die.