Roosters, confined spaces and re-establishing dominance

[Philosorapteuse]

Hey folks, could do with some advice on re-establishing the human/cockerel pecking order. We ended up with two bantam roos in our small flock who were misidentified as pullets, but they were all raised together and seem to be getting on reasonably okay still. Blackwell has always been pretty docile and easy to handle; Tissot is larger but subordinate to Blackwell, flightier and more standoffish. They were both pretty nicely-mannered with both me and my partner, things were going fine.

And then the avian flu came along, which meant we had to build them a run in the only space available, and confine them all to it. My partner does the majority of the feeding and cleaning etc, as I’m disabled, and I‘ve not been well this winter, so I’ve been out there even less. Meanwhile both roos have been maturing, and having not seen much of me in the meantime, they’re not used to me being in their space and have taken to seeing me as a threat. They’re fine with my partner, but when I go inside the run I stand a good change of being tag-team flogged etc. They’re both small enough that this isn’t as bad as it could be, but it’s absolutely a dominance behaviour that needs correcting.

I’ve looked at a ton of advice, and I‘m trying to handle them more, pick them up and hold them when they try and get aggy, etc. However, there are a number of reasons this is proving really difficult:

1) Avian flu lockdown legally confines them to the run. This is a cramped space where it’s difficult to manoeuvre, and my mobility/speed isn’t the best.

2) The run is long and narrow; we can’t change this, and it makes it basically impossible for me to be inside the run without getting all up in their faces. I can’t give them any space, and it definitely makes it worse because they start feeling cornered and threatened by me.

3) There are two of them, and they back each other up, which makes them super difficult to catch at all, and very hard to de-escalate them because they feed off each other. If I grab one, there’s a good chance of the other having a go at my legs. Again, they’re tiny - but with my hands full of one roo, I can’t correct the behaviour of the other.

4) Spring’s coming, and I’m pretty sure they’re more aggy than usual in consequence.

Neither of them are aggressive to my partner, so I don’t think they just have nasty temperaments - I’m pretty sure they stopped being used to me, and then working within the confines of the run has continued to escalate the perceived threat level. They especially hate it when I get down low to clean or feed, presumably because they read it as a threatening posture - went in with some corn today and got a plaster-worthy nip off Tissot for my pains Every time I’m in there it’s another face-off that I struggle to finish because of the factors above, which of course just makes things worse.

Any suggestions on how I could try de-escalating them, bearing in mind that we cannot change the run or let them out? The space is a nightmare, but I’m reluctant to let it slide any longer. I’m wondering if it might be helpful for my partner to catch one so that I can grab the other, but I’m not sure whether that would make things worse or mess with their internal cockerel hierarchy. Also not sure whether partner catching one and handing him to me would help me re-establish seniority, or whether I’ve got to be the one doing the catching. Any thoughts?

 

[Sally PB]

@DobieLover, do you have any ideas that might help this?

 

[DobieLover]

Hey folks, could do with some advice on re-establishing the human/cockerel pecking order. We ended up with two bantam roos in our small flock who were misidentified as pullets, but they were all raised together and seem to be getting on reasonably okay still. Blackwell has always been pretty docile and easy to handle; Tissot is larger but subordinate to Blackwell, flightier and more standoffish. They were both pretty nicely-mannered with both me and my partner, things were going fine.

And then the avian flu came along, which meant we had to build them a run in the only space available, and confine them all to it. My partner does the majority of the feeding and cleaning etc, as I’m disabled, and I‘ve not been well this winter, so I’ve been out there even less. Meanwhile both roos have been maturing, and having not seen much of me in the meantime, they’re not used to me being in their space and have taken to seeing me as a threat. They’re fine with my partner, but when I go inside the run I stand a good change of being tag-team flogged etc. They’re both small enough that this isn’t as bad as it could be, but it’s absolutely a dominance behaviour that needs correcting.

I’ve looked at a ton of advice, and I‘m trying to handle them more, pick them up and hold them when they try and get aggy, etc. However, there are a number of reasons this is proving really difficult:

1) Avian flu lockdown legally confines them to the run. This is a cramped space where it’s difficult to manoeuvre, and my mobility/speed isn’t the best.

2) The run is long and narrow; we can’t change this, and it makes it basically impossible for me to be inside the run without getting all up in their faces. I can’t give them any space, and it definitely makes it worse because they start feeling cornered and threatened by me.

3) There are two of them, and they back each other up, which makes them super difficult to catch at all, and very hard to de-escalate them because they feed off each other. If I grab one, there’s a good chance of the other having a go at my legs. Again, they’re tiny - but with my hands full of one roo, I can’t correct the behaviour of the other.

4) Spring’s coming, and I’m pretty sure they’re more aggy than usual in consequence.

Neither of them are aggressive to my partner, so I don’t think they just have nasty temperaments - I’m pretty sure they stopped being used to me, and then working within the confines of the run has continued to escalate the perceived threat level. They especially hate it when I get down low to clean or feed, presumably because they read it as a threatening posture - went in with some corn today and got a plaster-worthy nip off Tissot for my pains Every time I’m in there it’s another face-off that I struggle to finish because of the factors above, which of course just makes things worse.

Any suggestions on how I could try de-escalating them, bearing in mind that we cannot change the run or let them out? The space is a nightmare, but I’m reluctant to let it slide any longer. I’m wondering if it might be helpful for my partner to catch one so that I can grab the other, but I’m not sure whether that would make things worse or mess with their internal cockerel hierarchy. Also not sure whether partner catching one and handing him to me would help me re-establish seniority, or whether I’ve got to be the one doing the catching. Any thoughts?

You're literally in a tight spot. Without a more natural setting to work in and 2 cockerels tag teaming you, you are at a disadvantage.
I rehabbed my LF rooster but it took a long time and a lot of patience.
Are these boys aggressive as soon as you walk in the door?
Are they aggressive through the fencing?
You may want to start by sitting right outside the fence and read a book or something and ignore them. I'd sit on the ground and lean right up against the fence. If they attack through the fence, let them. Just ignore them like it doesn't affect you at all. Keep repeating sitting out there until they give up. If they stop attacking for a week, go in.
If they don't attack, put a chair in the run if you can and sit there. Do the same thing. Ignore them AND the girls. Just sit there.
What you are trying to do is get them accustomed to your presence again without feeling threatened to the point they need to defend. And by not reacting to their floggings you are showing them you are not going to run away and don't fear them.
You obviously need to wear long pants and a long sleeved shirt and keep them away from your face. It may take a long time. You have to be patient. Just see what happens.

 

[Folly's place]

And be careful! Getting wounded won't be fun, and having one or both fly to your face and eyes would be really bad news.
These young birds may escalate their attacks rather than improve, and start going after your partner too. Not all cockerels grow up nice, no matter how they are managed.
@Beekissed , @BantyChooks , and @Shadrach all have good articles concerning rooster behavior and management, worth reading.
Mary

 

[Philosorapteuse]

You're literally in a tight spot. Without a more natural setting to work in and 2 cockerels tag teaming you, you are at a disadvantage.
I rehabbed my LF rooster but it took a long time and a lot of patience.
Are these boys aggressive as soon as you walk in the door?
Are they aggressive through the fencing?
You may want to start by sitting right outside the fence and read a book or something and ignore them. I'd sit on the ground and lean right up against the fence. If they attack through the fence, let them. Just ignore them like it doesn't affect you at all. Keep repeating sitting out there until they give up. If they stop attacking for a week, go in.
If they don't attack, put a chair in the run if you can and sit there. Do the same thing. Ignore them AND the girls. Just sit there.
What you are trying to do is get them accustomed to your presence again without feeling threatened to the point they need to defend. And by not reacting to their floggings you are showing them you are not going to run away and don't fear them.
You obviously need to wear long pants and a long sleeved shirt and keep them away from your face. It may take a long time. You have to be patient. Just see what happens.

Thanks for the insights, this is super helpful. They’re not aggressive through the fencing unless they’re already stirred up because I’ve just been inside. Generally it seems to be linked to me being up in their cramped space - but I might start out outside the fence anyway just to start gentle. Occasionally they’ll start as soon as I walk in, but only if they’d come running up to the door... which means I can’t enter without getting up in their personal space and making them move for me, which naturally sets them off But if they’re not close, they don’t come sprinting over to have a go at me. We have interludes of them coming and having a go, and then everyone calms down for a while until we end up too close again and one of them decides it’s Fighty Time.

Most of the advice I’ve been looking at has been very focused on the actively asserting dominance strategies, which on reflection has probably been making things worse in the confined space! I’ll have a go at the less invasive approach. Might have to lure them away from the door to avoid starting off on the wrong foot. But got plenty of reading to get on with. Wellies shouldn’t be much impediment at least!

 

[LaFleche]

Any thoughts?

which on reflection has probably been making things worse in the confined space!

The advice @DobieLover gave you is very good and I would like to say that considering the tight confinement they have to stay in because of the avian influenza restrictions, I would wait until the flock-down is lifted and see, what their natural behaviour will be when not confined to this tight space.

They seem to be nice cockerels and not overly aggressive until triggered by feeling cornered. And just as you have already noticed, you might ruin your future relationship if you try to force the "actively asserting dominance strategies" under these cramped circumstances.

Sometimes the aggression can be triggered by certain boots or the colour or pattern of your pants or jacket etc.

 

[Philosorapteuse]

The advise @DobieLover gave you is very good and I would like to say that considering the tight confinement they have to stay in because of the avian influenza restrictions, I would wait until the flock-down is lifted and see, what their natural behaviour will be when not confined to this tight space.

They seem to be nice cockerels and not overly aggressive until triggered by feeling cornered. And just as you have already noticed, you might ruin your future relationship if you try to force the "actively asserting dominance strategies" under these cramped circumstances.

Sometimes the aggression can be triggered by certain boots or the colour or pattern of your pants or jacket etc.

Thanks for the input - I think you’re right. I’ll reckon I’ll see if we can chill things out a bit with quiet acclimatisation, and not progress things til we have more space to work with. The clothes thing is so true. They super hate it when I wear a particular coat, probably because it bulks me out significantly. I wonder whether introducing those items while sitting quietly might help once they’ve had a chance to acclimatise a bit...

And they don’t seem to recognise either of us when wearing a hat Which makes sense, I gather there’s research out there showing that chickens rely heavily on the general head area for recognition, and even small changes can get a flock member treated like a stranger. It makes me laugh, but it’s a pain on cold days when a hat would be nice!

 

[aart]

I wonder whether introducing those items while sitting quietly might help once they’ve had a chance to acclimatise a bit...

Yes.
....and use your voice, talk calmly as you come out and while you sit outside the enclosure.
Then start wearing the 'weird' things and your voice should help them recognize you.
The calm demeanor and voice has really worked well for me.

 

[Philosorapteuse]

Yes.
....and use your voice, talk calmly as you come out and while you sit outside the enclosure.
Then start wearing the 'weird' things and your voice should help them recognize you.
The calm demeanor and voice has really worked well for me.

Fab, thanks!

 

[Philosorapteuse]

Thanks for all the good advice, folks! I've progressed from sitting outside lecturing them about history (never had such inattentive students) to sitting in the workshop with the door open, and now I'm up to sitting in the run with no aggy behaviour so far (touch wood!)

Steadfastly ignoring them does seem to help significantly. Going to keep with the sitting quietly programme, and hopefully we'll eventually get to where I can come in and actually do things without them freaking out Even if that has to wait for a return to ranging freely though, this is better progress than I'd anticipated. Hope it continues...!