Russian Orloff and Egg problems...

[Avalon1984]

I was wondering if somebody here has Russian Orloffs and what their experience was with the quality of the eggs? Mine lays occasionally but the shell is always rather porous, has a funny feel to it and the small end cracks really easy, as if the top is soft. Yesterday I was cleaning one gently and it broke in my hand. Is this breed specific or would it have to do with my bird? Thanks in advance everybody for the help.

 

[Debbi]

Quote:
Do the hens have access to a calcium source? Like oyster shells?

 

[Chris09]

There are 5 nutritional things that can "regulate" egg shell quality.
Protein,
Calcium,
Phosphorus,
Vitamin D
Magnesium

Calcium is the primary mineral that makes up eggshells and when not supplied in the diet, the hen does not have the basic materials needed to make the shell. The problem is produced when whole grains or feeds deficient in minerals and vitamins make up the bulk of the laying hen diet. Thin egg shells are observed when calcium, phosphorus and vitamin D3 are not provided in diets at adequate levels. It is more often observed during periods of hot weather because calcium is conserved and retained within the hen's body less efficiently.
The quality of the shells is improved by feeding a complete laying ration as the only diet. This diet supplies all nutrients in the proper proportions so the hen can produce good shells. If thin egg shells becomes a problem, it is advisable to add 2 pounds of oyster shells (as an oyster shell flour or hen-sized oyster shells) to every 100 pounds of complete layer ration.
This will provide a quick remedy to the problem and should restore egg shell quality within a short period of time. After the egg shell quality is restored, the addition of oyster shell can be eliminated and the complete layer diet can then maintain good egg shell formation. It is also advisable to also add a vitamin supplement to the drinking water while the oyster shell is being added to the feed. This will help ensure that calcium and phosphorus in the diet is being properly absorbed through the digestive system and will be available for deposition as shell on the egg.
http://msucares.com/poultry/feeds/poultry_thin_shells.html

Calcium is a very important part of a mature hens health, and laying eggs. Egg shells are almost completely made of calcium. Along with Vitamin D, calcium is a vital part of the egg laying process. If the calcium intake of your hens is not adequate, you can have problems with the consistency of their laying, and soft egg shells. High levels of calcium can cause problems too. Young fowl, and roosters typically don't need an extra source of calcium, and too much can be harmful to them. It is best not to feed a layer type feed to all your fowl for this reason. You are better off to give them a normal type feed, without added calcium, and provide a free choice source of calcium for them, like oyster shells, so the birds that need it for laying eggs, have access, but the birds that don't, won't have to eat the extra calcium that they don't need.
ultimatefowl

Phosphorus is needed for healthy bones, energy metabolism, and acid base balance in the body.
ultimatefowl

Vitamin D is produced naturally in the body when exposed to the ultra violet rays from the sun, and its main function is to maintain normal blood levels of calcium, and phosphorus. Lack of vitamin D can cause soft egg shells, and brittle, or thin bones in fowl. Vitamin D also helps keep your birds immune system strong, and can affect their over all growth, and development. Extreme cases of vitamin D deficiency can even lead to diseases like Rickets.
ultimatefowl

A deficiency of either calcium or phosphorus in the diet of young growing birds results in abnormal bone development even when the diet contains adequate vitamin D3. This condition, rickets, can also be caused by a dietary deficiency of vitamin D3 (Vitamin D3 Deficiency), which is necessary for absorption of calcium. A deficiency of either calcium or phosphorus results in lack of normal skeletal calcification. Rickets is seen mainly in growing birds. Calcium deficiency in adult laying hens usually results in reduced shell quality and osteoporosis. This depletion of bone structure causes a disorder commonly referred to as “cage layer fatigue.” When calcium is mobilized from bone to overcome a dietary deficiency, the cortical bone erodes and is unable to support the weight of the hen.
The Merck Veterinary Manual

Vitamin D3 Deficiency Abnormal development of the bones is discussed under calcium and phosphorus deficiencies ( Calcium and Phosphorus Imbalances) and manganese deficiency ( Manganese Deficiency). Vitamin D3 is required for the normal absorption and metabolism of calcium and phosphorus. A deficiency can result in rickets in young growing chickens or in osteoporosis and poor eggshell quality in laying hens, even though the diet may be well supplied with calcium and phosphorus. Laying hens fed a vitamin D3-deficient diet exhibit loss of egg production within 2-3 weeks, and depending on the degree of deficiency, shell quality deteriorates almost instantaneously. Using a corn-soybean meal diet with no supplemental vitamin D3, shell weight decreases dramatically by about 150 mg/day within 7 days. The less obvious decline in shell quality with suboptimal supplements is more difficult to diagnose than that seen with absolute deficiency, as it is very difficult to assay vitamin D3 in complete feeds. There is a significant increase in plasma 1,25(OH)2 D3 of birds producing good vs poor eggshells. Feeding purified 1,25(OH)2D3 improves the shell quality of these inferior layers, suggesting a potential inherent problem with metabolism of cholecalciferol. Retarded growth and severe leg weakness are the first signs noted when chicks are deficient in vitamin D3. Also, beaks and claws become soft and pliable. Chicks may have trouble walking and will take a few steps before squatting on their hocks. They often sway from side to side while resting, suggesting loss of equilibrium. Feathering is usually poor, and an abnormal banding of feathers is seen in colored breeds. With chronic vitamin D3 deficiency, marked skeletal disorders are noted. The spinal column may bend downward, and the sternum may deviate to one side. These structural changes reduce the size of the thorax with subsequent crowding of the internal organs. A characteristic finding in chicks is a beading of the ribs at the junction of the spinal column along with downward, and posterior bending. Poor calcification can be seen at the epiphysis of the tibia and femur. By dipping the split bone in a silver nitrate solution and allowing it to stand under an incandescent light for a few minutes, the calcified areas are easily distinguished from the areas of uncalcified cartilage. In the laying hen, signs of gross pathology are usually confined to the bones and parathyroid glands. Bones are soft and easily broken, and the ribs may become beaded. The ribs may also show spontaneous fractures in the sternovertebral region. Histologic examination shows deficiency of calcification in the long bones, with excess of osteoid tissue and parathyroid enlargement. Adding synthetic 1,25(OH)2D3 to the diet of susceptible chicks does reduce the incidence of this condition. Although the response is not dramatic and is quite variable, results suggest that some leg abnormalities may be a consequence of inefficient metabolism of cholecalciferol.
The Merck Veterinary Manual

Magnesium;
Natural feed ingredients are rich in magnesium, thus deficiency is rare. Magnesium is rarely added to diets in the mineral premix. Newly hatched chicks fed a diet devoid of magnesium live only a few days. They grow slowly when fed diets low in magnesium, are lethargic, and often pant and gasp. When disturbed, they exhibit brief convulsions and go into a comatose state, which is sometimes temporary but more often fatal. Mortality is quite high on diets only marginally deficient in magnesium, even though growth of survivors may approach that of control birds. A magnesium deficiency in the diet of laying hens results in a rapid decline in egg production, blood hypomagnesemia, and a marked withdrawal of magnesium from bones. Egg size, shell weight, and the magnesium content of yolk and shell are decreased. Increasing the dietary calcium of laying hens accentuates these effects. Magnesium seems to play a central role in eggshell formation, although it is not clear whether there is a structural need or whether magnesium simply gets deposited as a co factor along with calcium. Requirements for most breeds of chicken appear to be 500-600 ppm magnesium, a level that is usually achieved with contributions by natural feed ingredients.
The Merck Veterinary Manual

Protein and Amino Acid Deficiencies. The optimal level of balanced protein intake changes according to age; for growing chicks it is 18-23% of the diet; for growing poults and gallinaceous upland game birds, 26-30%; and for growing ducklings and goslings, 20-22%. If the protein and component Amino Acids content of the diet is below these levels, birds tend to grow more slowly. Even when a diet contains the recommended quantities of protein, satisfactory growth also requires sufficient quantities and proper balance of all the essential Amino Acids. Few specific signs are associated with a deficiency of the various Amino Acids, except for a peculiar cup-shaped appearance of the feathers in chickens with arginine deficiency and loss of pigment in some of the wing feathers in bronze turkeys with lysine deficiency. All deficiencies of essential Amino Acids result in retarded growth or reduced egg size or egg production. Some deficiencies or even imbalances of Amino Acids may be related to management problems such as hysteria, “pickouts” and “blowouts,” and Fatty Liver Hemorrhagic Syndrome.
The Merck Veterinary Manual

Chris

 

[SparkyCrows]

My orloff lays light colored eggs daily. They don't seem particularly porous or fragile. I've had that problem on occasion with my marans but it seems to resolve itself when I put out a dish of oyster shell for them to pick at.

Here's a pix of my "Polka"

I crossed her with my buff laced polish crested roo and have been getting yellow chicks - "Dandelions".

If anyone is interested I posted more pix of the first hatchling at https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=6080874#p6080874

 

[Avalon1984]

Hey friends,

thank you for the quick answer. Yes, my "Chicken hawk" as I call her, has free access to as many oyster shell supplements as she wants. I have 14 other hens of the same age but different breeds and she is the only one with the problem, hence I was wondering if SHE is the problem. I am in West Michigan so temperatures are finally in the 40's again but she has always done it, whether it was in the summer or winter. At first the egg was all soft which I attributed to the fact that she just started to lay (last August) but since the problem is continuing I am wondering. She is out all day and gets plenty of sunlight. I feed her local layer mash and they get table scraps that contain everything from salad and bread to the occasional slice of bologna. She looks like a healthy bird and I would love to incubate one of her eggs but they are just so darn fragile. I am wondering what is with the tip being very soft now, as if she couldn't finish her job.

I will try and get a picture of her for y'all

 

[SparkyCrows]

Hmmm - I'm hoping some more orloff folks will chime in on this....

 

[Avalon1984]

Chicken Hawk just laid another egg and it was the same thing. The tip actually has a bit of a darker color, you can tell that it is not as firm. The whole egg has a weird feel to it, like wallpaper, not as smooth as the other eggs. Maybe it's just something within her. I love her anyways.

 

[Rare Feathers Farm]

How old is she?

I have quite a few hens & pullets and none of them are laying porous or thin-shelled eggs. They are actually the largest eggs of any of my chicken breeds and quite nice.

What are you feeding her? Mine are on Layena pellets with a layer mix from the local AG Supply store--and they get veggies, fish guts (DH is a fisherman) and meat scraps, sometimes. They also have free-choice oyster shell which I will sometimes throw in their run with a little scratch as they seem to eat it best that way.

 

[Avalon1984]

She is just over a year old and started to lay last August. I have her on 16% (I think) locally mixed layer mash but I am currently switching over to some layer crumbles I get from a farm store which they like a lot better. She gets table scraps like bread, salad and meat scraps and looks like any other happy chicken. I just watched her at noon and she was busy digging around in the oyster shell bin. They are out on a dirt run where they play and do their dirt bath and enjoy the sun (when it is ever out) . She also gets grits and I have one of the TSC flock blocks. They also get pellets that ( I cannot think of the name right now) you can buy to enhance feather growth and health. They usually sit with the grits and oyster shell and come for game birds (blue package)or regular birds (red package). I give them the regular bird stuff every once in a great while and they love it. Chicken Hawks eggs are usually very elongated and the tip is soft. Shell is very porous. I really, really wanted to try and incubate an egg but I am fairly certain with that structure it wouldn't survive the process. Oh, and she gets Tomato worms when in season and larva and ants from wood that we split.