Saw something today that scared the daylights out of me.

[AgroUrica]

I've got 800 young broilers here at the house...one group of 300 at 33 days, another group of 200 at 20 days, and the third group of 300 at 6 days today. Yeah, I know, all-in, all-out is the normal way of doing meat birds, but that's fodder for another thread.

Anyway, I sell a lot of dressed birds here from the house and at the moment I don't have any birds of that size. There are a couple of other producers here in the pueblo who supply adult birds from time to time. One of them doesn't have birds of sufficient size yet, the other told me they had birds of up to 3 kilos.....just what I'm looking for.

I show up at their place this morning and the owner's not there. I ask one of the workers what size the birds are, and he says, "well, let's take a look". We walk over to the chicken shed which has several hundred birds (a shed big enough for about a thousand birds) and the first thing I see is a big bird that looks dead. It's not dead though, still breathing, but "sleeping" in a most unusual position. I then see another, and another, and another, all in the same condition. Some birds look okay, but some are dead and others are curling their head/neck around in a very strange way.

Newcastle! And a very serious strain from what I've read.

When I got back to my place I removed my boots and the floormat of the truck, washed them thoroughly and then sprinkled lime on the soles of the boots and on the mat. I also poured lime/water over every square inch where I'd walked.

Tomorrow I'll vaccinate the 300 chicks that are 6 days old. The others will just have to "wing" it as it's too late to vaccinate them. They weren't vaccinated originally because I was told it's usually not worth it to vaccinate fewer than 1,000 birds at a time.

I did speak to a reputable vet who says there's a treatment that can help relieve some of the symptoms. He's the vet for these other folks with the current problem and will just happen to be here today in the pueblo (of course, I know why).

These other folks are known to run a poor-boy operation, cutting corners, etc. Looks like it's really biting them in the butt this time. Hope it works out for them and doesn't turn into a disaster for me as well. Live and learn.

 

[Hummingbird Hollow]

Wow, that does sound scary. You say "in the pueblo" and since you are using a lower case p rather than upper case P, I guess you aren't talking about Pueblo Colorado. Can you give me an idea of the part of the country you live in and where this strain originated?

 

[bigredfeather]

 

[AgroUrica]

Wow, that does sound scary. You say "in the pueblo" and since you are using a lower case p rather than upper case P, I guess you aren't talking about Pueblo Colorado. Can you give me an idea of the part of the country you live in and where this strain originated?

Sorry about that. I thought the country from where I'm posting was listed with the data on my handle. I'm in Venezuela so you should be safe.

From what I've read, there hasn't been an outbreak of Newcastle disease in the US since 1974.

The more I think about what I saw today, the madder I get too. There's an open market every Monday morning in the church square here in the pueblo and yesterday these same people sold live birds out of their truck. I too often sell live birds in the market but because I knew they'd be there (they usually sell really cheap) I opted to not compete. I sold dressed birds instead.

They had to have known good and well yesterday what they had yet they sold anyway. They've now probably spread this strain of the virus all over the place as their birds were distrubed around town, some spending time with other fowl before being slaughtered. Lots of folks here have laying hens, some of which I'm sure have now been exposed.

Should be interesting to see how this develops.

 

[SunnySkies]

There was an outbreak of END in the USA in 2002-2003 http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/ahfss/Animal_Health/newcastle_disease_info.html

I was part of the USDA's effort to eradicate it. I was a USDA field veterinarian at the time. We rotated in and out because it required a huge number of people to contain the disease as well as keep the home fires burning.

Some things you need to do to protect yourself now.

Vaccinate what you can. Learn disease symptoms, stay in contact with your local veterinarians and local veterinary health authorities and cull as soon as you think a bird is sick and have it tested.

Insist ANYONE entering your property spray their car tires. We traced some cases to the UPS truck going from one farm to the next, after someone had transmitted disease to the earth on a sick farm, where it got on the tires, germs were left on a healthy farm, then picked up on someone's shoes and carried into the houses.

Shoe covers. Foot baths, hand washing, coveralls.

Wear different clothing off the farm than you wear on the farm.

If anyone entering your property has been around other birds, don't let them near yours. Keep them in the driveway. Don't let them anywhere near where you could accidentally carry germs into your property.

Do NOT go near these people, and assume anything that left your property is contaminated. Other people who looked at their birds but then came and bought your dressed birds could have been carrying germs that got on your things.

I'm scared for you, TBH. I am sorry if that worries you, but it was a horrific thing to watch here. I sure hope it passes you by.

ETA: and next time, disinfect BEFORE returning home. Yikes. The lime might not be enough. We used Oxine, IIRC.

 

[AgroUrica]

There was an outbreak of END in the USA in 2002-2003 http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/ahfss/Animal_Health/newcastle_disease_info.html

I was part of the USDA's effort to eradicate it. I was a USDA field veterinarian at the time. We rotated in and out because it required a huge number of people to contain the disease as well as keep the home fires burning.

Some things you need to do to protect yourself now.

Vaccinate what you can. Learn disease symptoms, stay in contact with your local veterinarians and local veterinary health authorities and cull as soon as you think a bird is sick and have it tested.

Insist ANYONE entering your property spray their car tires. We traced some cases to the UPS truck going from one farm to the next, after someone had transmitted disease to the earth on a sick farm, where it got on the tires, germs were left on a healthy farm, then picked up on someone's shoes and carried into the houses.

Shoe covers. Foot baths, hand washing, coveralls.

Wear different clothing off the farm than you wear on the farm.

If anyone entering your property has been around other birds, don't let them near yours. Keep them in the driveway. Don't let them anywhere near where you could accidentally carry germs into your property.

Do NOT go near these people, and assume anything that left your property is contaminated. Other people who looked at their birds but then came and bought your dressed birds could have been carrying germs that got on your things.

I'm scared for you, TBH. I am sorry if that worries you, but it was a horrific thing to watch here. I sure hope it passes you by.

ETA: and next time, disinfect BEFORE returning home. Yikes. The lime might not be enough. We used Oxine, IIRC.

Thanks for that reply SunnySkies and for the tips to protect my birds. This has shaken me up enough that I've decided to take a bit of a break for now. I'm going to work with the young birds I've got but won't bring any new off-site live birds for slaughter here.....not for a while anyway. I've been at this intensively since January and it's actually good to take some time off and attend to other matters.

When time permits, and if you're so inclined, I'd really like to hear more about your experiences with that outbreak. Could be a really good learning experience for others here too.

 

[SunnySkies]

We suspected the 2002-2003 outbreak began with illegally imported fighting birds. It's so easy to spread diseases that way. You fight your birds, who spread their illness to the other birds. You don't know your bird is sick if he loses, but the winner takes his bird home, where it gives germs to the other birds on that property. You might buy and trade for other birds there, all potentially sick.

We think it entered the commercial producer flocks via an employee of a commercial production, who either had their own birds infected via fighting, had been on a property with infected fighting birds, or lived next door with their own birds to an infected property. And it went from there...owners didn't know their birds were infected then visited neighbors and friends. Trucks carrying necessary products traveled from farm A to farm B , carrying germs along with it. People working on farms took disease home to their layers or pet birds. And finally someone figured it out and called the ag department of CA. When they realized it was END and far more wide spread than they could handle alone, they called in help from the Feds. You can read a bit about that in the link. We ended up killing over 3 million birds of all types. That was hard, taking someone's pets (like most of us here) or someone's livelihood, and killing all birds, but there was no other way to contain it. It ended up in 2 other states, probably via transport of apparently healthy birds but hadn't broken with symptoms yet.

We went in and broke up fights, and it was crazy to see the tens of thousands on the tables on those poor birds, fighting to the death. We went in and eradicated entire houses at a time (I also did this as part of the task force in Delaware with low-pathogenic AI in 2004)., with thousands of broilers or laying hens in them. People with backyard flocks had to give them up if they lived in the identified infected area. And slowly, that area decreased as testing showed the disease was not present in the outer rings, until we just had infected birds in a few areas.

Once identified as clean, commercial properties had to follow stringent biosecurity rules, which, to be honest, is a great idea any time. This helped keep them clean while we removed the last diseased flocks. Backyard people could not replace birds....first of all, you could not buy and sell birds locally, and you couldn't order any either.

Meanwhile, no county fairs or shows had birds. No birds could be sold at markets or anywhere else. No birds could be moved. Pet stores could not sell pet birds. Egg transport was severely limited. It shut down the poultry industry for about 11 months, more or less. I had an ostrich farmer I looked after and supplied with disinfectant who had like 800 birds he had planned to sell, but ended up feeding for almost a year because he couldn't sell them.

There was quite a knee jerk reaction too, which did mean there was quite a waste of money and equipment in the panic. For instance, when the first responders realized they needed to institute whole house eradications, that farms needed some equipment, they bought things like port a potties and sprayer tanks, but nobody kept track of where those items went and who had them but just distributed like candy. We had to go back later and run that stuff down. Thus, when we had the DE AI outbreak, we kept careful track of who had what, so....mark your things, and mark anything the government might give you in case they need to take it back.

But this all stuck with me, and I practice strict biosecurity. I never ever bring adult birds here. I quarantine all young birds I might buy (which has only been a handful) locally. I wear different shoes off the property; this means that if I have disease here, I can't take it elsewhere and vice versa. That is not perfect, as we free range, and I could get germs on my shoes walking to the car, but it minimizes it. I don't allow visitors with chickens to come here. The only exception was our own Bulldogma, and she came here after not having been on her property for over 24 hours, went only to see the birds she was interested in, which I had quarantined from the rest, took the two she chose, and then left. I also have Lysol and bleach, and if I ever hear a whiff of a rumor about disease, anyone driving onto my property will be spraying their tires or not entering the property. I won't visit other farms or walk into their chicken yards. Like I bought 3 chicks from a guy a couple hours away. I stayed in the driveway, he carried out chicks for me to pick from, and I departed. Got down the road then stopped and sprayed my car wheels, my shoes, hands, and those chicks came home and stayed in the brooder. I looked after them last, after changing my clothes and washing my hands. The idea of going to a chicken swap gives me the shivers. I would possibly do it, but I would not buy anything there. It would be fun to see other people's set ups if I went visiting, but it was so horrific taking other people's birds, watching them cry and having no way to help them, that I want to do everything possible to prevent that from ever happening to me. I would kill my birds myself if it ever happened here to save them from the illness and the kill teams (some used methods I found repulsive myself).

Keep a close eye on your birds, when everything is ready, process and wait it out. Many hugs. I hope it passes you over.

 

[SunnySkies]

Now, if I was in charge (lol) of what was going on in your area, I would do the following:

Immediately create a quarantine zone. The distance would depend on how people in the area travel and how far they go. If people come from 20 miles away, I'd make the ring 40 miles to try to catch anything they traded, for instance.
I would eradicate everything on the infected farm. Every bird would euthanized. Clean, no new birds for a while.
Start testing all birds within the quarantine zone. As areas come back clean over time, the area can get smaller and smaller. (we did this with the DE AI outbreak. We closed all poultry trade, started testing birds and facilities, and after some weeks with no sign of disease and no positive tests, we began releasing some farms from quarantine. We depopulated the index farm with 3 houses and thousands of birds and made them clean, disinfect and wait for 6-8-12 weeks before repopulating. That AI outbreak originated with wild birds)
All sick or dying birds are tested automatically.
No trading in live poultry, period. No egg sales.
No birds leave a property alive.
People institute biosecurity practices on their property to prevent friends carrying disease on their persons bringing it to their place

Harsh, but this disease pops up every so often, and if strict rules were followed every time, and if people would keep sick birds home (like these people) it could eventually be eradicated. And all of this costs money and manpower. Le sigh.

 

[AgroUrica]

Thanks again SS for such a detailed response on that outbreak. If reading of your experiences encourages just one member here to re-evaluate how they handle, buy, sell, or trade their birds, it will have been worth your effort.

To be honest, I don't know what to do at this point.

I'm an "outsider" here and as such I'm hesistant to make too many waves. After the fateful visit to their place I called the owner as I'd spoken with her earlier about buying birds. She said she was aware that they had a problem but the vet had told her it was nothing serious. My response was that I thought it was something VERY serious. I called the same vet (he works at the hatchery and supplies baby chicks as well as feed and medicine) and asked what I could do to protect my birds from what I'd seen. His recommendations were much along the lines of yours and also commented that this particular client was always something of a thorn in his side.....they wanted to produce a few thousand birds at a time but didn't want to spend the money necessary for medicines and other safety measures. When he told me he wanted to visit me that evening to deliver a vaccine for my young birds. I told him it was fine but only if he stopped at my place first. He responded that there was no reason to visit the other place as they'd not adopt any of his recommendations anyway.

So, here I'm stuck. I need to vaccinate my youngest birds but can't. The process he described calls for the use of "leche descremada" or milk without cream and I can't find any here in the pueblo. Imagine that, a town of 15,000 people and no light milk. And if you think that's outrageous, since last August the town hasn't had water! This place is a disaster.

Anyway, thanks again for helpful suggestions. I'll keep you posted on the outcome.

 

[SunnySkies]

Never ever ever buy any birds from there. Ever. Unless you kill them offsite and nothing from the processing enters your place without disinfection first. And don't invite the owner for dinner either Sounds like they harbor disease all the time and it would simply be borrowing trouble to ever do business with them, unfortunately.

Yes, that sounds like a disaster. I grew up on a farm without water, and we had to haul water in for our animals. It's a lot of work and does make sanitation difficult. I feel for you.

AFAIK, nothing will help mitigate the disease or prevent it other than vaccinating prior to exposure, so I don't know if I would go nuts looking for light milk. Keep your head down, a close eye on your birds and pray.

I'll be interested to hear what goes down...do you end up with a pueblo-wide outbreak, or does this burn out quickly....