Scaly Leg Mites or another problem? photo heavy

[BlueMoon]

Thanks for all the thoughts - Pollysmum, I clipped the nails back so they could move a bit, but then my husband cut them back too much. At least three nails were bleeding, which certainly did not help their mobility.
I'll be moving them into a larger kennel tomorrow, as enough ice has melted that I can safely carry it into the house.
Are there secondary symptoms of SLM? I reckon one bird is at least six, the other is probably a year or two younger, so it's possible either Sammi or Spotted Cow are onto something.

Do I need to put the oil on daily or is every other day ok? I have been trying to treat the girls without medications as much as possible, so will stick with olive/almond oil with tea tree oil for a few weeks, unless this doesn't clear up.

 

[sammi]

every few days would probably be ok..

 

[pollysmum]

If the Scaly leg mites are left unchecked they can cause blood disorders with the birds... they can send them lame, they can get leg infections

If you can afford to get a product that will treat both internal and external lice and mites and worms at the same time... get it ... they are long lasting and they will get rid of the parasites on all the birds.. and keep them protected for 2 to 3 months...

With the Scaly leg mites being so bad on these birds it will take close to 5 to 8 months for the legs to even start to look semi normal if you use a good parasitic medication

Using the oil treatment it could take up to a year to clear them... and even then they may not be gone..

 

[BlueMoon]

Pollysmum, I really appreciate your insight. I've avoided meds for the chickens for a few reasons - breeding for resistance, feeling we tend to overmedicate people as well as chickens, these girls are a primary food source, as well as pet, and often, I think the natural remedies often have equal results. Since we eat the eggs, I like to go natural first.

But I'm so new to being a chicken owner and have so many concerns with every decision I make. I'm beginning to think a bunch of the chickens have lice or mites, the kind that break off feathers. With 78 chickens, I just can't bathe them all, blow dry them all and hope that they don't reinfect each other before I finish - at least not until we have some warm sunny days and a few volunteers.

So, with these two, I'll try the oil for a few more weeks and then move to the traditional route if it doesn't work. I am not sure what signs will tell they're either cured, getting cured or just have old scales that are popping off because they're old or because they've had to hold their feet in a funny way for so long.

Which products would you recommend for the parasites, in and out? For the lice or mites, I think I also have spray their nesting boxes and their coop.

Thank you!

 

[silkiechicken]

Food grade DE sprinkled in litter and next boxes and on birds is something to help ward off mites and other pests. For my small flock of 20 -30 I use a poultry dust and put it in their favorite dusting holes and they dust themselves.

Those hens look like they've lived in cages for their nails to get so long. As for the scales, some may "naturally" be up after the scaly mites are gone if they have pin feathers or feathers in general growing out from between the scales.

 

[SpottedCrow]

The bird section in the petstores sells a mite thing that hangs off the side of the cage...you may be able to use it in their nest boxes also.

Pssst...I may be a cow in real life, but I'm a CROW here...LOL

 

[pollysmum]

Quote:
Fully understand your thinking, when I was new to poultry I thought the same way... I reisted treating for worms because I felt that they would be ingesting a poison

I don't eat my birds, but still didn't want this in my own flock

Over the time I have learnt a few things

If you find one .. yes even one little louse... you have a million and every day you don't treat they multiply by the thousands.

I have also learnt that they can do some terrible damage health wise to your birds. You end up with a very sickly flock that take months to regain their stamina. And you take years getting the original flock back to healthy, unless you cull.

And seeing as my own flock are pets... I don't cull... so I battled to get them all back to health.. not cheap once it all has a hold believe me

Now... I treat... most things you use other than DE has a withholding period.... and then they are ok

Now... I don't hold back... and I use the best I can possibly get to do the job in the first place

But I'm so new to being a chicken owner and have so many concerns with every decision I make. I'm beginning to think a bunch of the chickens have lice or mites, the kind that break off feathers.

Roosters break off feathers
Low protein in the diet causes the feathers to go brittle and can make the feather breaking worse
Any laying hen uses protein from her system to lay eggs, causing all her feathers to go brittle
The birds with broken scraggy feathering are usually your best layers
Lice and mites can cause irritation to cause the bird to peck a their own feathering

And certain lice eat the feathers...

So from the sounds of things you need and internal medication and you also need and external spray .. as you seem to battling with two sorts of parasites on the bird

The internal medication will kill off any parasite that actually burrows or bites the birds... the external spraying kill off any that lives on the feather and does not actually bite or burrow

With 78 chickens, I just can't bathe them all, blow dry them all

So true... too many birds to individually wash... so you need to get yourself a really good internal worming and parasite medication.... and you also need to get yourself a 5 or 7 litre hand spray...

I buy the ones they use on gardens... not that expensive and I cut down the long wand to only about 12 inches... easy to do and replace the spray at the end...

I make up a spraying solution using Permethrin concentrate and water...

Firstly... I decide to make a day of it.. and get everything prepared for the job... and I do it on a nice day

I start in the morning...

Keep all the bird in a confined area... spray every bird and then let them go outside making sure you have food and water for them to eat once the have been sprayed to stop any stress hitting or reduce it considerably

Make sure its a warm day.. do it when they have a chance to dry off quickly... only spray the vent, under the winds to the skin, back to the skin and breast to the skin... do not spray the head.. and it must be to the skin

While you have each bird.. check the nails.. clip any nails that are long.. use dog clippers to do this

Then gently let them go

I put up a small table and put towls down to make it a little softer for the birds.. I tip them upside down to spray the vent and breast and under the wings and clip the nails and then stand then up to spray the back .. let them reagain their balance and then let them go outside

Once all the birds are done I start to clean the coop and nest boxes
clean all the coop ... remove all nest boxes and destroy all nesting material and any on the floor..

I then wash and spray out the coop.. pointless spraying a dirty coop

burn or remove all the nesting material etc to some place a long long way from your coop... the bugs will and do come back ... I take mine to either land fill... or burn it

Spray all the coop with the Permethrin ... ceiling.. walls... floor and nest boxes

DO NOT ALLOW THE BIRD INTO THE COOP WHILE IT IS WET, and do not allow them to use the nest boxes while wet

Put out a nest box .. someplace away from where your working... if your worried they won't know where to lay.. put some fresh nesting material into it and they will do the rest

and hope that they don't reinfect each other before I finish - at least not until we have some warm sunny days and a few volunteers.

One person can do this in one day... just make sure you have everything set up that you will need

Extra Permethrin spray made up in plastic bottles to refil the sprayer...the sprayers over here have a pump up action.. once you have pressure built up you just have to squeeze the trigger and it sprays... very easy to use .. and very quick

A small plastic bottle with some olive oil in it .. a small paint brush... to brush the legs once you have cut the nails..

Dog nail clippers... and the large human nail clippers... sometimes they are easier to use ..

A pair of scissors.. just in case you find daggy feathers around the vent area... cut them away leaving a half and inch of the feather.. don't ever cut right up to the skin

If you don't do them all in one day... and the coop.. the bugs travel from one group to the other and one coop to the other.. so you have to hit them hard and fast in a day .. I used to set up a little production line

Notice said used to .... that because I don't have to do this any more... now I use products to do the job in a day in the drinking water... the only thing I still have to do is clean and spray the coop and nest boxes... the rest I do via medication in the drinking water... easy as..

So, with these two, I'll try the oil for a few more weeks and then move to the traditional route if it doesn't work. I am not sure what signs will tell they're either cured, getting cured or just have old scales that are popping off because they're old or because they've had to hold their feet in a funny way for so long.

Don't pull the scales off thinking your helping...
You have to understand the reason why the scales are jutting out... its a build up of droppings from the scaly leg mites .. and its really hard... so the oil has to penetrate past this to actually get to the mite to smother it... the mites are head first into the birds flesh sucking blood from it ... and they breath through their bottom... but the build up of their own droppings is protecting them

And sometimes when they are so badly infested you need to hit these bugs internally and kill them

And they will infect the rest of your flock .. the longer you leave them and only treat them with external products... the mite is alive...

Which products would you recommend for the parasites, in and out? For the lice or mites, I think I also have spray their nesting boxes and their coop.

First I need to know where you live... country... and given an approxiate on how much your would be prepared to pay... different prices... different ways of battling the situation... send me a pm if you prefer not to disclose on the open forum and then we can come back here and discuss ideas...

Thank you!

My pleasure​

 

[BlueMoon]

I'm in New York, upstate rural section, USA. Price is second to effectiveness and side affects.

Thanks so much for all your help and explanations! Especially about why the scales were lifting - that had me baffled.

 

[pollysmum]

This is not an FDA approved medication for birds.. but it works and it works well

Cydectin... (Moxidectin)
It will get rid of the internal worms and also the external parasites...

You will need to re treat them 10 days after first treatment as the worms will have laid eggs and these will not be passed out by the birds... its just a precautionary measure

The treatment should last for 2 to 3 months

See if you can get a small amount from a farmer in your region... it must be the water soluble sort ... test some by putting a few drops into some water... if it mixes... grab it .. it if floats on top of the water... you can only use this one on the skin of the birds not in water

Remove all other sources of water
Readily taken by the birds, there is no need to withhold food.

The wormer of choice during racing, breeding and moulting with pigeons

Dosage… 5ml per litre of water

Put out enough medicated water that the birds do not run out of water during medicating

If cold.. leave out 48 hours
If hot .. leave out 24 hours
If your not sure.. leave out 36 hours..

I always use Permethrin concentrate .. to spray

but if you find you can't get it you can use this product.. Maldison

Poultry:
Lice and mites in poultry houses:
Mix 500ml Maldison in 25L of water to spray nesting boxes, litter and walls.
Mix 500ml Maldison in 8L water to paint onto roosts. Repeat applications in 8-14 days to destroy lice hatching from eggs present at first treatment.
Lice of Tropical Fowl Mite on birds:
500ml Maldison in 100L of water.
Spray birds at a rate of 50L per 1000 birds.

The initial outlay for the Cydectin is expensive.. but it lasts for ages.. and your doing two jobs for 2 to 3 months with no handling of the birds.. unless you need to spray the birds for lice that are not biters as they may not be affected or destroyed

Cydectin will kill... ear mites.. scaly leg mites... lice, mites that bite the birds, any sucking insect that bite the birds, fleas, most internal worms .. but not tape worm..

If you know anybody else with birds.. maybe you can go halves or quarters in the purchase and you can all benefit from it... maybe somebody on here will be willing to go in with you to cut your costs down... it is expensive to start with ... but gee its good...

 

[dlhunicorn]

You can go to the petstore and get a spray for ON the birds (cage bird section) ... if your feed store has products for pigeons there is also a spray ...

Maldison (Australian brand name for MALATHION) ...it would not be my choice over say a permethrin/pyrethrin

http://www.apvma.gov.au/chemrev/downloads/maldison_scope.pdf

Maldison is an organophosphorus insecticide used to control a wide range of insect pests of
agricultural crops and animals. It is also used for outdoor home use. It is a broad-spectrum,
non-systemic insecticide and acaricide with contact, stomach and respiratory action.

Reasons why maldison was considered a priority for review include:

• Concern over public safety when used in fruit fly eradication programs in urban areas;

• Concerns over the adequacy of occupational health and safety assessment for products;

• Inconsistencies with safety directions on maldison product labels; and

• Concerns over re-entry intervals for workers, as identified in the assessment by relevant
regulatory authorities in the USA.

The details of the concerns that have been raised can be found in Sections 5, 6 and 7 of this document...."

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/211605.htm
MERCK veterinary manual overview on organophosphates


You can also use ivomec EPRINEX (use the spot-on method instead of adding to water is my advice) and here is a link with info and instructions:

http://shilala.homestead.com/ivomec.html