Self Sufficient Breeding vs. Dual Purpose Breeding

[SmiYa0126]

I imagine that most people look at this heading, and think "What's the difference"? To me there's a huge difference! Think about it? What is a dual purpose chicken, and what is a free range chicken?
I grew up raising Game Chickens all my life. Our hens that we weren't breeding, just ran out and free ranged. I've seen game hens fly a block in the air to get away from predators. Plus, we didn't even feed them, except every once in a while I'd give them a little. To me, this is the definition of a "True Free Range Chicken". They can survive on their own, and are very good at avoiding predators. They're setbacks, are they're smaller body wise. A rooster weights 5-6lbs, and hen around 4lbs. There eggs are smaller, but actually richer.
As for a "Dual Purpose Chicken Breeds", there are many. They've been raised to produce lots of eggs, and be a decent size for meat. While they meet these needs, their abilities are limited in the free range self sufficiency department.
More and more people like myself are starting homesteading and raising our own food in an effort to be self sufficient. Chickens are a main source of food, and they pick a "Dual Purpose Chicken Breed" or breeds. However, they soon realize, that these dual purpose chickens require a lot of care and feed, even free ranging them. Thus, the goal of self sufficient is not as achievable as they thought with chickens.
This is were my experience with Game Chickens, has lead me to raising Game Chickens for the purpose of free ranging and self sufficiency. I'm also experimenting with crossing Game Chickens over Dual Purpose Chickens to add a little size. Are any of you doing any breeding of Game and Dual Purpose Crosses for the benefit of a self sufficient chicken?

Here in PA a farmer friend of mine doesn't have to feed his guineas during spring and summer due to content of bugs, etc but has to feed them in the winter. What a fascinating topic though! If you do mix the two reply back how it works out! God Bless!

 

[Krugerrand]

I'm trying to find a thread from a while ago. I thought I had it bookmarked, but apparently not. The person was in (I believe Texas) and trying to keep a largely feral chicken population. It turned out to be a pretty long thread.

I'm in Southwestern Pennsylvania. Given that we have wild turkeys that survive the winter, I would think it would be POSSIBLE to develop a chicken that could survive. It would probably take a good bit of selective breeding mixed with semi-controlled predation to get those survival instincts established.

But, then you're faced with the reality that they would need a large enough land territory to roam and would then no longer be readily available for eggs/meat.

Which, back to that thread I was trying to find, the intended goal did not include harvesting eggs/meat.

 

[Geena]

From this very interesting article-
How the Chicken Conquered the World

"Around the Mediterranean, archaeological digs have uncovered chicken bones from about 800 B.C.. Chickens were a delicacy among the Romans, whose culinary innovations included the omelet and the practice of stuffing birds for cooking, although their recipes tended more toward mashed chicken brains than bread crumbs. Farmers began developing methods to fatten the birds—some used wheat bread soaked in wine, while others swore by a mixture of cumin seeds, barley and lizard fat."

 

[Krugerrand]

I don't have the thread bookmarked, but there is a member here who maintained a completely self-sustaining flock for several years somewhere on the US gulf coast. They had access to dozens of acres of field, forest, and scrub in a highly-productive ecology.

I'm trying to find a thread from a while ago. I thought I had it bookmarked, but apparently not. The person was in (I believe Texas) and trying to keep a largely feral chicken population. It turned out to be a pretty long thread.

I think I found it!
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/successful-100-forage-diet-experiment-long-post.1435544/

 

[ColtHandorf]

A single male goose can help with this.. Not two. If there's only one he'll love the chickens and protect them.

*laughs in goose keeper*

100% no. My geese are worthless when it comes to predators. Their size might dissuade hawks, but honestly my Muscovies do more when a hawk or small mammal is on the ground near them than the geese who have been repeatedly preyed on by a bobcat. Additionally, most of my geese absolutely hate the chickens and bully them at every opportunity.

 

[Penpal]

I have seen large geese protect property very well, such as your house and outbuildings. This person kept geese for meat and eggs, like we keep chickens.

But, they will pick on chickens.

I also have turkeys... in the area. They will be in the woods behind my house one year, and in another woodsy area a mile down the road the next year. They keep moving around. Your chickens will stay within a small area around the coop (their nests) and will not become nomadic. This greatly lessens their ability to forage in the winter. I feed my birds all winter, but come spring they eat less and less and in the summer I feed them about 15% of what they ate in the winter. If I provide them with maggots in a bucket, that is still me providing dinner.

I think it is lovely the poster can free range her game birds, but even game birds cannot survive winter where I live.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

So, I take it that your calling me a liar. There's no use in arguing with stupidity. The Lord feeds the birds just as the Bible says...

No, as @3KillerBs correctly notes, Gallus Gallus Domesticus (that is, the common chicken) is a domesticated species - while there are a few climates where feral flocks are capable of exceeding predator pressures and maintaining stable populations, most climates do not. Asking where you are located is a way of establishing the base assumptions.

Raising chickens in Montana is markedly different than raising chickens in England, in Florida, or in New Mexico. Many of the heritage "dual purpose" chickens, you will likely note, are named for areas they were developed, well north of the equatorial tropics and subtropics where gamebirds can (and have) thrived for centuries.

The Delaware, Rhode Island Red, New Hampshire, Buckeye, Hamburg, Jaerhorn, Jersey Giant, Orpinton, Plymouth Rock, etc all bear evidence to that.

If set free in their native environments, none would be expected to thrive.
Otoh, many of the more ancient breeds - scrawny, flighty birds infrequently laying small eggs - do maintain feral populations in the Mediterranean, the Carribean, South FL, Hawaii, and similar climates - though if set free in Montana or Norway, they likely wouldn't do so well...

I assure you, if the members of BYC intended to call you a liar, most would be far more direct about it.

/edit and as an aside, given the choice between taking animal husbandry advice from the most published book in Western History and a more modern scientific work devoted to the subject of animal husbandry, I'm going to choose the science over magical thinking. That a thing is Popular is no guarantee of its Accuracy.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

No Tractor Supply? what?


Dude, They didn't feed them much. Personally I don't know what they did, but you don't either. I doubt the early americans were hiking miles to somewhere to buy bags of chicken feed to carry over their shoulders.

Actually, we DO know what they fed, and how the chickens performed. Do not project your ignorance onto us. A quick search will turn up numerous threads on the subject, in which myself and about a dozen others were significant commentors, with links to primary and secondary sources. Including old published feed recipes, manuals for raising chickens, "laying competitions", and the like. I personally learned a lot from them.

The answer is, briefly, the chickens did not perform well, and that those seeking even that poor level of performance fed their birds. (One example of many). While they mixed their own, yes, and counted on the birds foraging missed feed from the other farm animals, spilled grain in the fields, "green" pasture, and bugs, many of those recipes stand up remarkably well to modern poultry science - unlike the typical "make it at home" feed recipe you find on Youtube or a slick web page.

BYC is a place to learn. Appreciate you being honest about your ignorance, but the step from "I don't know" to "I'm being facetious" in support of a point demonstrating my ignorance is likely a step you don't want to take.

 

[Pickensandchigs]

*laughs in goose keeper*

100% no. My geese are worthless when it comes to predators. Their size might dissuade hawks, but honestly my Muscovies do more when a hawk or small mammal is on the ground near them than the geese who have been repeatedly preyed on by a bobcat. Additionally, most of my geese absolutely hate the chickens and bully them at every opportunity.

You said geese.. I said goose.. gotta be one goose, or there's no magic.

 

[ColtHandorf]

You said geese.. I said goose.. gotta be one goose, or there's no magic.

I have single geese. They are just as irritating.