Self Sufficient Breeding vs. Dual Purpose Breeding

[SheaLoner]

There are many people here in Missouri close to me who have moved here from California to homestead.

This is what the other posters were looking for. To add context to being able to truly free range. Good luck at your goal, Please post pics of the result.
I just know it would in no way be feasible in my area.

 

[RiverOtter]

For someone ranting about

City Slicker YouTube Want To Be Homesteaders.

You sure mention your favorite youtube channel a lot. Projecting much? I absolutely agree with you that

immaturity shows, in how they doubt anything that they don't know about.

And that

Just because they have chickens, doesn't mean they know everything about All chickens.

But I think you ought to look in a mirror when you think it.

FYI, it's not your faith, it's your personality. And so far, all you've "educated" people on is that you're short tempered and quick to make personal attacks. As far as crossing games with other birds, that's hardly ground-breaking, it's been done. Without feeding - which, as has been mentioned, is documented back as far as 7,000 years - and human-selected breeding, which doesn't get very far without protecting and feeding your chicks and broodies, you get birds that are exactly like the southern feral flocks. Because that's how those happened. You will never in a million years get birds that are better for eggs and especially for meat than breeds that need more care, simply because they need more care because they are giving more eggs/growing more tissue!

I'm in Southwestern Pennsylvania. Given that we have wild turkeys that survive the winter, I would think it would be POSSIBLE to develop a chicken that could survive.

Turkeys have larger body mass, which helps them preserve heat. If you look at the feathers of a wild turkey, they are proportionately much longer, for more insulation. But cold-hardiness isn't the issue as much as diet. Turkeys are large enough to eat acorns, which is a HUGE food source for them. Chickens are not. Turkeys will also eat mushrooms, and chickens wont (I don't know if they can't, but I do know they don't naturally see them as food, and turkey poults instinctively do) So that's two major food sources and the main winter one, not available to chickens as they are to turkeys.

I'm north of you and have wild quail, which are smaller than turkeys, so one might think that would mean chickens could be feral, but quail evolved hard to survive, they are small enough to eat meadow grass seeds in the winter and their whole little bodies are geared for cold - short legs, big breasts, thick down, smaller lungs even - in ways that chickens just aren't. It would probably be easier to breed domestic strains of quail for higher production (which people are doing) than it would be to try to breed chickens that are as winter-hardy.

 

[Caw]

There's a guy YouTube who has what you're calling Gypsy Chickens. He calls them Jungle Fowl. I've noticed that Cackle Hatchery is now selling Jungle Fowl chicks. When I look at them, they are basically game chickens.
We're working on getting our whole place fenced, and cross fenced, and predator proof. Meanwhile, I've been incubating eggs, and hatching in numbers. The plan is to place different breeding groups in each of the sub divided areas to breed and multiply. My crossing the game with dual purpose breeds, is an experiment to add a little more size, and still maintain the self sufficiency of the game chickens. I'm figuring on crossing them out to about 7/8 game, and 1/8 dual purpose. I'm still raising pure game chickens to fall back on.
Yes, my reason is I know and understand the times we're in, and being as self sufficient in every way is my goal.
Most people don't realize that game chickens lay a lot more eggs then they think. Mine lay 5-6 eggs per week. Plus, in comparison to the dual purpose eggs. The game eggs are smaller, but they are much richer in flavor. That's even with the dual purpose breeds free ranging. The game chickens eat many more things that are different than the dual purpose breeds do, which makes the eggs much richer, and what makes them able to self sustain.
Egg production, and meat production, aren't so important, if you have the quality of chickens to sustain you.
There are many people here in Missouri close to me who have moved here from California to homestead.

I’m in Kentucky, so a pretty similar climate to you. Would you mind detailing what your birds eat in the winter to sustain themselves? If not here, is there another thread where you talk about that? I think that would be really helpful info, even for folks who don’t free range as supplemental or “hard times” type knowledge.

As for breeding to increase size, is it possible that would actually become a detriment to self-sufficiency, not just due to increased energy needs but also the ability to flee from predators?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

As for breeding to increase size, is it possible that would actually become a detriment to self-sufficiency, not just due to increased energy needs but also the ability to flee from predators?

Yes, and yes.

Though where those points are depends on the structure of the birds in question and the local predators. Some animals got larger in part as a defense against predators. Being an 8# mostly-flightless chicken is a pretty decent deterrent to a snatch and grab by a 4# hawk. At least, once it survives adolescence. But sure looks attractive to the wild canine packs...

 

[3KillerBs]

here in Missouri

So why didn't you just say this instead of ranting and raving and making wild accusations about people?

 

[Christiancowboy]

So why didn't you just say this instead of ranting and raving and making wild accusations about people?

I didn't with you because you were being arrogant, and saying that you doubt I can do what I've done for years. I don't deal with disrespectful people like you. Show respect and you'll get respect. Plus, I didn't want and rave or make wild accusations...that was you. So, I basically kicked your disrespectful butt to the curb.

 

[SheaLoner]

I didn't with you because you were being arrogant, and saying that you doubt I can do what I've done for years. I don't deal with disrespectful people like you. Show respect and you'll get respect. Plus, I didn't want and rave or make wild accusations...that was you. So, I basically kicked your disrespectful butt to the curb.

Where exactly in this, did they come off as arrogant or disrespectful? Inquiring minds would like to know.

Where are you located?

I find it highly unlikely that this practice would succeed in any area that isn't capable of supporting a year-round population of feral chickens.

Unless, of course, they have access to a fair number of other livestock animals that are fed so that they can find sufficient food by scavenging spilled feed, picking undigested grain out of manure, etc.

 

[Christiancowboy]

I’m in Kentucky, so a pretty similar climate to you. Would you mind detailing what your birds eat in the winter to sustain themselves? If not here, is there another thread where you talk about that? I think that would be really helpful info, even for folks who don’t free range as supplemental or “hard times” type knowledge.

As for breeding to increase size, is it possible that would actually become a detriment to self-sufficiency, not just due to increased energy needs but also the ability to flee from predators?

The extra size I'm talking about is maybe 8 ounces. That's just something I'm experimenting with. My main flock is pure game.
As for what my birds eat in the winter, not be smart alicky, but I really don't know. I just see them constantly foraging. Game chickens have built in survival skills, that have been breed out of domestic chickens. They eat things that domestic chickens won't eat. When there's snow on the ground, both domestic and game will be scratching through the snow. But the domestic chickens won't have much in their craws, while the game chickens craws are fairly full. So, I have to supplement the domestic chickens. Heck, I have to supplement the domestic chickens right now. I call them my worthless chickens. God created chickens to be self sufficient. Man has decided that he can improve on what The Lord did. So, he's breed the self sustainability out of chickens, and turned them into domestic, worthless, dependant chickens.

 

[NatJ]

The extra size I'm talking about is maybe 8 ounces. That's just something I'm experimenting with. My main flock is pure game.

Can you just choose the biggest of the current games, and breed them together, and see if some of their chicks grow bigger yet? That should let them keep all the other traits they have that you like.

God created chickens to be self sufficient. Man has decided that he can improve on what The Lord did. So, he's breed the self sustainability out of chickens, and turned them into domestic, worthless, dependant chickens.

Whether domestic chickens are better or worse depends on what you want them to do.

If you want them to sustain themselves by foraging, I agree the domestic breeds are worse.

But if you want to provide feed and have the chickens give you more eggs or more meat or both, then the domestic breeds are better.

What you personally want from your chickens is different than what many other people want from their chickens. I am glad that so many different kinds of chickens exist, so each person can find the kind that is right for them.

 

[Christiancowboy]

Yes, and yes.

Though where those points are depends on the structure of the birds in question and the local predators. Some animals got larger in part as a defense against predators. Being an 8# mostly-flightless chicken is a pretty decent deterrent to a snatch and grab by a 4# hawk. At least, once it survives adolescence. But sure looks attractive to the wild canine packs...

Answer me this....How did chickens survive since God created them? There have always been predators of all kinds for every animal, but they've all survived through the centuries. God didn't create the dependant domestic chickens, man did. That's why I'm sticking with the ones man hasn't domesticated.