Setting up our dust bath

[Debbie292d]

I said *like* onto asbestos. It didn't it was.

The not subtle difference being, Parrots and the like don't roll face down in dust multiple times a day, they typically bathe in water.
I also imagine it was under the floor on the tray, where they couldn't reach it easily even had they wanted to.
Indoor birds cages also get cleaned regularly, due to the general filth that birds create.
Most indoor pets don't have issues with external or internal parasites to begin with anyway.

Indoor Aviary bird care can't be used to justify outdoor Fowl care, the two are very different. It's not really worth mentioning.


Can I ask how are you making sure they 'don't inhale it' after you put them back in the coop after spreading it?
Chickens dig and dust constantly.
They don't get to wear masks and their respiratory system is so much more complex and delicate than yours.
The production of d.e also leaves massive yawning pits in the earth that won't heal for centuries and disproportionate amounts of pollution in the water and air of surrounding areas.

I can't reccomended against enough, their are better, safer ways to prevent and treat pests but whatever floats your goats.

One thing I’ll mention is that the Harris company has been providing diatomaceous earth for over 100 years. If it were truly that dangerous, I'm sure our government would have banned it or at least required hazard warnings on the packaging. The pool grade may indeed have warnings. I've never looked.

I’ve heard there might have been poultry deaths linked to DE, but even if that’s true, the reports I'd seen don’t specify which type was involved, and pool-grade DE is definitely much more concerning than food-grade.

I mention aviary birds because I use it with them too (fruit flies are constant in the summer without it), and they’ve done just fine with it.

At the end of the day, we won’t see eye to eye on this one, and that’s okay. There are plenty of folks on both sides of the fence. I’m just sharing our experience, as we’ve had good results using it safely and successfully for many years, while you’re being cautious due to what you’ve read.

Like you said, “whatever floats your goats.”

 

[nuthatched]

ne thing I’ll mention is that the Harris company has been providing diatomaceous earth for over 100 years. If it were truly that dangerous, I'm sure our government would have banned it or at least required hazard warnings on the packaging.

Harris farms doesn't make quality products, nor do they care about the health of birds, you or the environment, the bottom line is their profit.

If you'll read the next package of d.e you buy, you'll see something like "amount of exposure not exceed 2%, if used in a way that exceeds or is used in any other matter or for any other purposes, user is responsible for any risk or damages to livestock."
Using it as/in a dustbath is considered "for any other purposes".

That disclaimer means they're well aware of potential issues but as long as they state that you're on you're own if misuse it, (and they know people will) they're immune to repercussions.
This disclaimer is required by the government, the 1960 Federal Hazardous Substances Act to be precise.
Osha is in an ongoing process (started in 2015(?) I believe) of gathering research and testimonials for stronger regulation and labeling for all classes of Diotomaeceous Earth.

Companies and governments don't care about safety until they can be held accountable, in which case, they'll just pay a lawyer to slap a disclaimer on it.
They are absolutely not going prohibit sale on known harmful substances, especially when it pads their pocket. (Wanna cigarette?)

This forum is the closest thing to a bird knowledgeable vet most people have access to, we shouldn't ever reccomended potentially harmful practices, no matter how we feel about them.

 

[Three Stents]

Harris farms doesn't make quality products, nor do they care about the health of birds, you or the environment, the bottom line is their profit.

If you'll read the next package of d.e you buy, you'll see something like "amount of exposure not exceed 2%, if used in a way that exceeds or is used in any other matter or for any other purposes, user is responsible for any risk or damages to livestock."
Using it as/in a dustbath is considered "for any other purposes".

That disclaimer means they're well aware of potential issues but as long as they state that you're on you're own if misuse it, (and they know people will) they're immune to repercussions.
This disclaimer is required by the government, the 1960 Federal Hazardous Substances Act to be precise.
Osha is in an ongoing process (started in 2015(?) I believe) of gathering research and testimonials for stronger regulation and labeling for all classes of Diotomaeceous Earth.

Companies and governments don't care about safety until they can be held accountable, in which case, they'll just pay a lawyer to slap a disclaimer on it.
They are absolutely not going prohibit sale on known harmful substances, especially when it pads their pocket. (Wanna cigarette?)

This forum is the closest thing to a bird knowledgeable vet most people have access to, we shouldn't ever reccomended potentially harmful practices, no matter how we feel about them.

go read the label on your toothpaste,,,,,,"contains poison".....still gonna use toothpaste?

 

[K0k0shka]

We just make sure we nor the birds inhale it,

I, too, would like to know how you make sure chickens don't inhale it, given how they roll around during dust-bathing and kick dust up to the heavens. You didn't answer nuthatched, so I'm asking again hoping this time you'll answer, as I'm genuinely curious.

If it were truly that dangerous, I'm sure our government would have banned it or at least required hazard warnings on the packaging.

I'm sorry, I just can't help it, but I wouldn't hold my breath for our government to protect us from dangerous things (not before, and especially not now). Every protection we have was hard won with blood, sweat and tears, still lagging behind Europe, and whatever protections we managed to get are being destroyed right now. If we were in Europe, then yeah maybe I'd use a product more bravely banking on the government having banned anything dangerous, but not here. The mighty dollar rules here, and if something is dangerous but profitable, there will be a loooooonnnnnngggg and thorny road towards banning it.

 

[Debbie292d]

I, too, would like to know how you make sure chickens don't inhale it, given how they roll around during dust-bathing and kick dust up to the heavens. You didn't answer nuthatched, so I'm asking again hoping this time you'll answer, as I'm genuinely curious.



I'm sorry, I just can't help it, but I wouldn't hold my breath for our government to protect us from dangerous things (not before, and especially not now). Every protection we have was hard won with blood, sweat and tears, still lagging behind Europe, and whatever protections we managed to get are being destroyed right now. If we were in Europe, then yeah maybe I'd use a product more bravely banking on the government having banned anything dangerous, but not here. The mighty dollar rules here, and if something is dangerous but profitable, there will be a loooooonnnnnngggg and thorny road towards banning it.

We free-range, so they make their own dust baths in the summer. In the winter, dust baths are kitty litter boxes in the coops. A little DE and ash are mixed into the dirt. As I mentioned, we've been raising and breeding silkies for nearly a decade now. If it were going to hurt their lungs, I'd have been dealing with a lot of chickens with respiratory problems. Thus far, in all this time, I've only had one hen develop a cold, which, after amoxicillin, she was fine in a few days. That was a couple of years ago, and she's been fine ever since.

I just say to each their own when it comes to the things people do with or for their chickens. I may not agree with them, but they are their chickens, not mine. I just make suggestions of things that work for us.

 

[TammieR]

FWIW

I consider animal husbandry to be very important, and I understand that there are many different ways to create a great environment for livestock of all types. I understand that one of the main reasons to provide a dust bath is to reduce the mite burden on chickens.

I don’t have shavings in my coop. I have raised poop tubs under the roost bars. I clean them every day. I have 25 chickens. The amount of poop I take from those tubs every day is substantial. The thought that so much excrement would fall to the floor to be absorbed by some type of “bedding” every day, sort of makes my skin crawl, primarily because dirty shavings will likely provide a hospitable environment for animals like mites. I use a stall fresh product in the poop tubs. It tends to dry things up and makes it easy for me to remove each day’s “deposits” from the hens. It’s like cleaning large cat litter boxes, but the chicken poop doesn’t make me gag the way that a cat’s feces do.

I have a vinyl floor in my 8x10’ coop building. During the day, it is typically only visited by the hens that are laying eggs in the nest boxes. To pick up any droppings off the floor, I can use the timothy hay that the hens ceremoniously toss from the nest boxes to scrub across the few dropping with a broom and then I can put that into my poop pail. Once or twice a week, I mop the floor with a pet friendly, but good quality cleaner. It’s such a small space, it’s not a big deal to mop it.

The primary reason I have a vinyl floor in my coop is because I use a wheelchair and I can’t negotiate through any sort of ‘bedding.’ But, the big benefit is that, well, mites and most other paracites don’t really like to live on a vinyl floor. No bedding full of droppings = far fewer paracites as well as other vermin like mice.

The one place I use bedding, is to make sachets of peppermint oil. I liberally drop the oil on pine shavings that I use to fill the packets. I hang a packet in the coop and refresh with a few drops of the oil every few weeks. In the hot months when we have flies, I also use a peppermint spray that amazingly repels flies (spider and mites, too.) I spray the roost bars every day (just a few squirts), and the wood molding along the floor of the resin/plastic shed (again, less wood, fewer critters that like to live on that sort of surface.) No flies after a few squirts.

I first had chickens back in 1995 when, as a single woman, I bought the old 7 acres homestead of a 100 year farm. I turned half of a somewhat crumbing, small shed into a coop. I’m sure those chickens had plenty of dust baths all around the lower barn where I kept sheep. But, I never really noticed. Now, I have to keep things far more buttoned up when it comes to caring for my chickens because I have some physical constraints, and well, I’m getting older. Using a kitty pool in our covered run works well for me. My chickens still make little dust baths in the grass runs, but they also seem to enjoy the kitty pool option which is good for me.

And as for the use of diatomaceous earth – when I read the reply that equated it to asbestos, I looked deeper into all the copious amounts of information that populates the internet, but that isn’t necessarily accurate or helpful. I was a professional scientist /biologist for 20 years, so research matters to me. I was left feeling satisfied that I wasn’t harming my chickens by using the product.