Sex- linked Information

[tadkerson]

There was some discussion on this thread a while back about both crele and using Delawares in sexlink crosses. I just hatched out gold/red sexlink crosses of crele roo (gold) over Delaware (silver) hen.

I thought the results would be more wild type with the gold/silver expressing on the background, but they are almost lacking in additional markings. Perhaps the colombian inhibits the stripes. Here is a photo of the first chicks that hatched from this cross.

My evaluation is that the middle one is female and the other 2 are male. (But I welcome your feedback).

Wheaten (delaware) down color is dominant over wild type (crele) down color. The columbian gene from the delaware helps remove the back markings.



Tim

 

[Ridgerunner]

I can't find the photo, but a few years back I hatched out some chicks from a Speckled Sussex rooster over a Delaware hen. Also in that hatch were chicks from several different hens of different colors including red and buff. I did not know how many of what cross hatched.

Four of those chicks were a lot like yours. A couple looked like those yellow ones and a couple had a reddish tinge to the yellow similar to your middle one. I thought I might have two males and two females. Nope, I had four males. When they feathered out I could tell which pullets were from the Delaware hens. Looking back at the photos I could not tell which chicks for sure were the female offspring of the SS x Delaware, but they were really dark red. If I had only hatched SS x Delaware it would have been real obvious. You learn by doing.

The Delaware hens contributed barring to their sons but that did not show up until they feathered out and then it was only in certain places. Like pure Delaware the black barring was suppressed over most of their body,

My SS rooster put Mahogany in the mix which I think made a big difference in down color. Your Crele will not contribute that Mahogany so I don't know how red your female chicks will be. I'm sure there are other genes involved too. With chicken genetics it seems it is always more complicated than it should be.

I don't have any experience with your cross so I'm not even going to guess. I monitor this thread. When you figure it out, I'd appreciate it if you would come back and let us know.

 

[Noncentzter]

I know that by crossing a Black Orpington over a Delaware that I will get all barred chicks with the males having a white spot on their head. But what will I get when crossing these females with a Barred Rock? I'm referring to the single bar vs. double bar gene thing. Will I be able to tell the difference between the single/double barring? Will it even work or will I just get black chicks?

 

[Arielle]

Just as an FYI-- earlier there was a question about the visibility of the white spot on the head of a blue chick.

This summer I hatched blue cuckoo marans-- the head spot is very obvious on the chicks. THe blue is a dark silvery gray, dark enough to show the white spot. 6 males, 1 female.

I also hatched a group of blue and black ameracaunas ( sorry , will never spell THAT right) and the rooster being a blue contributed 50% blue to his black offspring. The blue does vary in darkness, but even the lightest blue/gray was dark enough that IF there had been head spots it would be quite visible.

Hope this helps the understanding of the blue coloring.

 

[catdaddyfro]

I know that by crossing a Black Orpington over a Delaware that I will get all barred chicks with the males having a white spot on their head. But what will I get when crossing these females with a Barred Rock? I'm referring to the single bar vs. double bar gene thing. Will I be able to tell the difference between the single/double barring? Will it even work or will I just get black chicks?

If the BR rooster is pure for barring(BB) and not (B/b) they will all be barred both male and female chicks. doesn't matter on the Dams side, BB is the dominant color gene at work. all offspring will be B/b therefore will show barring, head spot checking/sexing will be difficult here. Sometimes some of the males will show a more white head (almost the whole head) but still the pullets can too so there's not a definite sexing ID mark here.

Jeff

 

[aoxa]

Do you guys truly believe in BB being able to be sexed at a day old by head dot definition, leg colour and down colour?

Because I have one who stumps me.. Everything had me swearing it was a female at hatch. At 2.5 weeks, barring is too precise, and comb is too large to be a female.

 

[LAFreewayChickens]

I know that by crossing a Black Orpington over a Delaware that I will get all barred chicks with the males having a white spot on their head. But what will I get when crossing these females with a Barred Rock? I'm referring to the single bar vs. double bar gene thing. Will I be able to tell the difference between the single/double barring? Will it even work or will I just get black chicks?

If you cross a Black Orpington rooster (unbarred) over a Delaware hen (barred), you would get sex-linked offspring. That is, the males will be barred and the females unbarred. In the chicks, this should mean that the males have a head spot and the females are solid black (with a black orp sire).

If you crossed a Delaware rooster over a Black Orp hen, you would get all barred offspring, regardless of sex.

 

[LAFreewayChickens]

Do you guys truly believe in BB being able to be sexed at a day old by head dot definition, leg colour and down colour?
Because I have one who stumps me.. Everything had me swearing it was a female at hatch. At 2.5 weeks, barring is too precise, and comb is too large to be a female.

About 10% of Barred rocks can't be sexed definitively at hatch by the factors you mentioned. But this usually means you know which ones are the unknowns, not that one which appears clearly to be female turns out to be a male.

There is an awesome reference with practice pictures to test your skill with head spots, which also has a protocol about in which cases to consider which factors published decades ago by the Canadian Ag ministry: http://archive.org/details/sightsexingbarre00cana

I learned a lot about the head spots from reading it (and especially looking at the pictures).

 

[Ridgerunner]

I haven't played with barring enough to speak with the authority experience would give me. SpeckledHen had some real nice photos showing the effect of double-barring versus single barring on the spot. Again it comes down to being able to see the spot against other down color.

To explain that just so we all know what I'm talking about and what I think the others are talking about. The rooster carries two genes at he sex link barring location. Whether that is BB, Bb, or bb doesn't matter. He has two of these genes.

The hen has only one. She is either B- or b-.

The effect for double barring can only be on the males. If a male chick is BB, he will have a larger spot and will be lighter in shade than a pullet that is B- or another male that is Bb. How much of that lighter shade shows up in the down I'm not sure but it sure shows up in the final feathering.

If you can clearly see the spot, SpeckledHen's photos showed that it was pretty clear. Even when the spot was a bit camoflauged it was still possible to make a pretty good educated guess. But it took real practice and you really need to have a few side by side to compare to make a really good guess if that spot was a bit cloudy. Aoxa, I think it comes down to experience actually seeing it.

Delaware are sex link barred. A hen will give a copy of the barred gene to her sons and not to her daughters. A Barred Rock rooster over a delaware hen will produce roosters that are BB and pullets that are B-. They will also be split for Columbia. I have not done that cross. I don't know what effect Columbia might have on the down. If you can see the spot, and you probably can, the males should have a larger spot than the females.

Arielle, thanks for that on the blue chicks. I'll try to remember this time.

 

[aoxa]

Example... This little one seems to be female, right?

Looks just like his dad did at 3 weeks. :/