Sex-Links

[Ridgerunner]

Excellent post. You can really see the Leghorn in some of those birds. Some hatcheries are pretty up front about which breeds go into their sex links. Some go real quiet about that when you ask them. I think your post may explain some of that.

I suspect a lot of these are sex links, possibly red sex links for the browns but I'd really suspect feather sexing for all of them. As you say, the parent birds come from specific flocks. Feather sexing would be real easy to set up in those circumstances. So they would be sex links (feather sexed) but not the typical red or black sex links we are used to talking about. The browns are the only ones that could possibly be red sex links. Certainly not the whites and the parent stock of the blacks were not barred.

I think your post could also explain why different people see different performances from the sex links, where some are no better than other breeds from hatcheries and some are better, why some sex links burn out so early and others don't. As usual, it is probably more complicated than you would think.

But I still believe that they are not better egg layers because they are sex links. They are better egg layers because the parent stock are better egg layers. Them being sex links has nothing to do with it.

 

[Tenmore]

My leghorns and some of most of my sexlinks are all laying at 18 19 weeks.

 

[briteday]

I've had both ISA's and just run of the mill RSL from a hatchery (RIR x delaware). The ISA's started laying around 15 weeks and all were laying by 20 weeks. I had a few with shell problems (consistently soft or o shell, maybe 2 out of 18 birds) and I had 2 just die for no good reason other than looking "off" for a few days. I'm not into doing autopsies on my own birds but I'm guessing they might have died from repro disorders. All in all, I still got more eggs from those birds than I've ever gotten from any other breed...consistently throughout the winter without fail. Hot or cold, rain, wind ... they lay eggs every day.

This year we bought RSL's from Ideal. They are now 20 weeks and haven't seen an egg yet. They aren't squatting, not interested in the nests, no red on their faces, nada. Theya re supposed to be RIR x delaware crosses. I'm guessing that I'll see eggs sometime around 24 weeks and they won't have the daily productivity that the ISA's had. Although, I have to admit that I also ordered some delaware hens from Ideal as well, and they are awesome looking girls. I've received many compliments on their conformation...but they're not laying yet either...pretty, but no early laying.

Also, the ISA's have a far nicer temperament, never had any feather picking among them in the brooder or later in the coop. The RSL's have almost no tail feathers at 20 weeks. They constantly pull them out of each other. And they are not friendly, more freakish when I go in the run.

My educated guess is that since the ISA's are a commercial breed, bred mainly for egg producing facilities by the millions, the hens and cocks are no longer any particular breed other than their own patented stock. They have been selected over many generations for all of the positive egg producing traits. The standard hatchery sexlinks are probably bred by choosing a rooster and a hen of the correct breeds (and they are not all that well selected, being hatchery stock themselves) to generate the sexlink color traits. However, they are not being selected for egg laying traits. Hatcheries know that backyard flocks are the hot commodity these days and are cranking out chicks faster than they ever thought they could. The hatcheries have no obligation to repeat customers on a large scale, unlike the producers of commercial stock.

That's my $0.02

 

[Auscal]

As the OP of this thread, I just wanted to say a big thank you for everyone who took the time to share their knowledge, and express their opinion. it has really helped me to understand and clarify the issue.

As a newbie, before I got my chicks, i thought all red sex-links had to be RIR X white Leghorn. After i got my chicks I realised my mistake, and was fortunate that I was able to contact the local hatchery, through my local feed store and find out what cross my sex-links were- just for my own knowledge. In reality, I have what I wanted - healthy , biddable chickens that (hopefully) will lay well enough. My main reason for getting chickens was part of a desire to have control, at least a small, part of our food source. The entertainment value has been an unexpected bonus. While it would have been nice to source individual/pairs of chicks of my absolute first,second & third preference breeds from individual breeders , the practicality was the substantial extra expense, and hassle, would not have been worthwhile for a tiny backyard flock that I never plan to breed from anyway.

 

[Pele]

Quote:
I agree, I think there is a big varience depending on which hatchery you order from, and which cross went into your birds. I have noticed a general trend in the forums where owners of the RIRxDelaware crosses don't like their birds' personalities. I was very confused by this at first since my own RSLs are so docile and inquisitive, but it does make sense if you examine the cross.

Most of the time my Golden Comets don't even bother with the pecking order. They live like some hippy smurf commune somehow. Or maybe like a highschool clique of girls, where the prettiest/blondest girl is automatically the leader, no discussion (that would be Darla, and yes she is mostly blonde in color compared to the rest).

Auscal, thank you so much for starting this thread! It's really facinating to talk genetics, especially crosses like SLs.!

I had fun hearing everyone express their ideas in a coherant and respectful manner. That doesn't happen very often in forums where differing views are present! BYC is the best.

 

[HLAC]

I don't think the commercial red sex-link breeding stock has much in common with whatever stock was originally used. Kind of like cornishx meat chickens are pretty far removed from the original cornish x white rock (or whatever it originally was).

A lot of selection has gone into these birds get better and better layers over the generations.

 

[CarolynF]

Quote:
I agree, I think there is a big varience depending on which hatchery you order from, and which cross went into your birds. I have noticed a general trend in the forums where owners of the RIRxDelaware crosses don't like their birds' personalities. I was very confused by this at first since my own RSLs are so docile and inquisitive, but it does make sense if you examine the cross.

Most of the time my Golden Comets don't even bother with the pecking order. They live like some hippy smurf commune somehow. Or maybe like a highschool clique of girls, where the prettiest/blondest girl is automatically the leader, no discussion (that would be Darla, and yes she is mostly blonde in color compared to the rest).

Auscal, thank you so much for starting this thread! It's really facinating to talk genetics, especially crosses like SLs.!

I had fun hearing everyone express their ideas in a coherant and respectful manner. That doesn't happen very often in forums where differing views are present! BYC is the best.

X2

As usual, I'm learning SO much from the collected knowledge, thoughts, and experience of BYC members. Thank You!!

But I have one question.... What is an ISA?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Quote:
One variety of commercial egg layers. This link is from Fred's Hens.

http://www.isapoultry.com/en/Products/ISA.aspx