She said/He said Who's right? Who's wrong? No one!

[NTBugtraq]

I'm sorry about the quality of the pictures, but I would appreciate what critical feedback you might have for my roo. I should point out that his comb and 1/2 of one toe fell off this spring due to frostbite in the winter. Also, he was tackled in the bush by two of my Bichons who, I think, stripped his saddle feathers. No sign of them growing back??











Any suggestions on taking better pictures would be appreciated. He's no lovey-dovey guy, he's drawn blood from my ankles on several occasions.

 

[Alaskan]

Walnuthill, what you are doing is wonderful breeding!

 

[scflock]

I agree with @WalnutHill as to your Marans and Breeding in general.

I also think that the Marans breeder thread is a bit too harsh... Because these perfect birds do not fall out of the air.

I bought a few eggs from a supposedly good breeder, to help with the issues that my flock has.... And I culled every single bird out of that hatch, at hatch, except for one.

You simply have to decide to hatch out as many as you can, and then pick the best ones from that pile.

Thats my only complaint with that thread. I asked for the faults to be pointed out, and I have learned tons on that thread, but no one ever says to breed the faults out. It's always "use another bird". I totally appreciate everyone's advice, and when I get some feet on the ground I can start moving forward, but just look at your local CL (well maybe not Alaska ) and most of the birds on there don't look nearly as good as mine. If I order chicks from a reputable breeder, that same breeder is going to cull 90% of their birds, so there's slim chance of getting a SOP bird there. I didn't know my bird "lacked substance", and I am very grateful to know that, but can I not move forward with this bird and breed it out in the following generations without bringing i another bird that may have a totally different set of issues?

 

[scflock]

Oh my! I can't wait to see those replies...

 

[WalnutHill]

Thanks! I am doing something similar with my turkeys. I have a pair of Golden Narragansetts, a pair of Narragansetts, and a Broad Breasted Bronze hen.

I'm crossing the Narri toms to the BBB hen as well as to their own mates, so I have hatched out a small pile of Narragansett, Golden Narragansett, and BBB x both. The great thing about the BBB crosses is that they are sex linked when crossed with the Golden Narragansett tom, the females are hatching as buff with bronze pattern, and the males as bronze. Both are far larger than the pure Narragansett poults.

In these, I am breeding for a naturally breeding meatier bird, with toms in the 22-25 pound range rather than the Narragansett 18 pound range (dressed).

I've started a BBW hen poult for next year's breeding, and she is being raised with layers so she doesn't become as large as her raised-for-table cousins. The BBB hen I have now was raised for meat by someone who didn't have the heart to eat her, and she struggles with life. She'll head to freezer camp too. The white bird is to break the Narri genes so that babies can't pass as Narragansett as well as to enforce the somewhat meatier build.

 

[NTBugtraq]

Thats my only complaint with that thread. I asked for the faults to be pointed out, and I have learned tons on that thread, but no one ever says to breed the faults out. It's always "use another bird". I totally appreciate everyone's advice, and when I get some feet on the ground I can start moving forward, but just look at your local CL (well maybe not Alaska

) and most of the birds on there don't look nearly as good as mine. If I order chicks from a reputable breeder, that same breeder is going to cull 90% of their birds, so there's slim chance of getting a SOP bird there. I didn't know my bird "lacked substance", and I am very grateful to know that, but can I not move forward with this bird and breed it out in the following generations without bringing i another bird that may have a totally different set of issues?

One thing that has been pointed out to me in my project bird thread, is that if there are bad genes in the birds you have, better to start with birds with better genes because you can never truly get rid of the bad gene(s)...it may show up again at any time in the future in any crosses you might do. I did used to think you could "breed out" bad things, but its a fact you can't. You could breed a version that's exactly what you want, but its offspring may not come close. Hence the difference between "breed" and "characteristics". A breed breeds true repeatedly (with the very rare exceptions). Some characteristics could be bred repeatedly, while others are far less reliable, if its simply a cross. WalnutHill and I are breeding for characteristics, and culling those that don't meet the ones we want (e.g. egg color, winter-heartiness, etc...)

I've been told; "Why do the machinations you're doing cross-breeding when all you have to do is get some great BCM hens?" My simple answer is; "They're too darn expensive! I'm working with what I got." and the purists just shake their head.

What I should be answering is; "It's just so much fun doing it my way! Even if it fails."

 

[caesargirl]

Amy, I have started a thread in the HaL section to cover my current (started yesterday) and future repeated hatches. I am following your recommendations for low humidity (for the styrofoam bator).

I have to find instructions on doing a salt check on the hygrometer. Thanks again!

What are you considering as low humidity?

 

[NTBugtraq]

One thing that has been pointed out to me in my project bird thread, is that if there are bad genes in the birds you have, better to start with birds with better genes because you can never truly get rid of the bad gene(s)...it may show up again at any time in the future in any crosses you might do. I did used to think you could "breed out" bad things, but its a fact you can't. You could breed a version that's exactly what you want, but its offspring may not come close. Hence the difference between "breed" and "characteristics". A breed breeds true repeatedly (with the very rare exceptions). Some characteristics could be bred repeatedly, while others are far less reliable, if its simply a cross. WalnutHill and I are breeding for characteristics, and culling those that don't meet the ones we want (e.g. egg color, winter-heartiness, etc...)

I've been told; "Why do the machinations you're doing cross-breeding when all you have to do is get some great BCM hens?" My simple answer is; "They're too darn expensive! I'm working with what I got." and the purists just shake their head.

What I should be answering is; "It's just so much fun doing it my way! Even if it fails."

I should correct myself. Bad genes can be bred out of like breeds, just not out of crosses.

 

[NTBugtraq]

What are you considering as low humidity?

35%, and leaving it dry with the vent open...so hopefully no higher than 35% but it may get down to 25% as it did in my last hatch. Upward adjustments, if necessary, according to both weight loss and air sac size.

 

[caesargirl]

35%, and leaving it dry with the vent open...so hopefully no higher than 35% but it may get down to 25% as it did in my last hatch. Upward adjustments, if necessary, according to both weight loss and air sac size.

Chicks or ducks? (Just started reading this)