Sheep People-Advice Please!

[zzGypsy]

Quote:
who would you be reporting it to? is he a vet in a multi-vet practice? if so, you could certainly call and ask to speak to the managing partner. that's where I'd start. report to licensing agency in your state? if I didn't get a satisfactory response from the main office, I might. of course, you might have a chat with the doc himself... sometimes that helps, sometimes it doesn't. for sure I'd let the managing partner / his empolyer know.

if you're going to make a complaint, make a list like this, be clear because it might be emotionally stressful. and I'd put the bedside manner last/lowest on the list. it makes a difference from a client-relations standpoint, but not so much from a proper care standpoint.

one of my better horse vets was a grouchy old guy who would lecture you and chew you out on the phone, didn't know the horses names, didn't talk to them, and always handled them in a workmanlike calm manner, not in a friendly way. but I'll say he knew his stuff, pulled out all the stops when treating a critically ill horse of mine, and when we weren't able to save him, went and researched what else might have gone wrong and spent an hour on the phone with me discussing signs we might have missed, other things we might have tried, and making sure we knew there really wasn't anything else we could have done.

I generally *like* friendly vets, and I fired one once for what I thought was an unreasonable fit of temper, but of all the things a vet might do or not do, remembering the animal's name is very low on my list.

 

[NateinFL]

I think with all the mishaps he told me...including "leaving her alone", I will send a letter to the clinic. If i followed his advice Marjorie would sure be dead by now.

Why didnt he tell me about probios?

Why didn't he tell me about cream of wheat?

He is new obviously, but he shouldnt agree to take sheep calls if he is not familiar with that area.

 

[zzGypsy]

Quote:
I think it's possible she might be... certainly the post care, hydration, drench, baster feeding *some*thing to keep her from crashing, and the no-callback, and the not putting what was used to treat are big big deals.

I think some vets don't believe the probios do much, don't know how the scientific proof stands on this. I think it helps, I'm not sure every vet would agree. that said, a vet should be able to suggest extra measures if the client is willing to try everything.

cream of wheat is a new one on me, (so thank Dr. Sara for me

) but it makes good sense. its a mark of her experience, and that's cool. I have to say it's not been suggested by any of my 3 sheep experienced vets in CA, so I'll probably pass it along to them as well. given it's the first time I've heard it too, so personally, I wouldn't consider it a ding on the other vet, but a plus on Dr. Sara. the fact that he didn't suggest ANYthing is definitely a ding.

on not taking sheep calls, yep, that should have been the first thing he said, and the second should have been "here's who you can call that has experience." still, in a dire emergency, you have to take what you can get, and an inexperienced vet may be better than no vet.

if the "leave her alone" was about you not spending time with her and staying out of the pen when you're not actively treating her... well, that's appropriate for sheep that aren't pets... they're stressed by the presence of people and that can affect them badly. but it would have been much better to ASK if she's used to people or not. if it was about "don't do anything else to treat her", well that would be very bad advice indeed... in my sheep breeder, non-veterianarian opinion.

there are vets that see livestock in a utilitarian way... how much is this sheep worth ($) and how much will it cost to get them well (in vet care, drugs, supplies and time). there are some owners that see the same thing. and there are vets and owners that think you should do everything humanly possible, regarless of the expence or time required. part of having a great relationship is the vet understanding where on that scale you are... and then acting accordingly.

I've spent hundreds of dollars on a sheep that wasn't worth nearly what the vet bill came to. but there is a limit, and at some point I will say, that's enough. I have had to teach some vets what to expect from me, in terms of how much work I'll do to save an animal (more than most) and how much money I can spend (more than many). but a savy vet will learn that quickly and know to ask if they're not sure.

this guy sounds 1) young, 2) inexperienced in sheep, 3) inexperienced in client (human) care, 4) utilitarian, and 5) in need of coaching, or perhaps overwhelmed. this combination *might* work for some clients, but clearly a bad fit for you. and likely to have him traded out by many other clients too. from a purely business standpoint, that's bad for the vet business he's working for and they should know about it, and then coach him to bring him up to a higher standard of performance. if they don't, he'll cost them clients.

on a personal level, if he's fresh out of school, he deserves the chance to learn and grow. but NOT to the point where he's making errors that affect the health of my animals. it's hard to be new and still have to get everything right... but if he needs help, he should be asking for it, not just wandering around on his own.

 

[Glenmar]

 

[Skyesrocket]

He did not call me today with the fecal results, I had to call him multiple times before he answered, and he said it was a specific worm, and he had no clue how to spell the worm's name. How is that supposed to help me?

Did he at least tell you the name of the worm? And explain which medication works best to get rid of it? And if the Quest he gave her take care of it?
I think you got good advice about listing what your complaints are. I would call the office instead of sending a letter. Letters can be overlooked.
The Cream of Wheat makes good sense. It is fortified with iron.
I hope your gal recovers.​

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

I think with all the mishaps he told me...including "leaving her alone", I will send a letter to the clinic. If i followed his advice Marjorie would sure be dead by now.

Why didnt he tell me about probios?

Why didn't he tell me about cream of wheat?

Sometimes leaving them alone is the BEST thing you can do.

You already treated her with a wormer, which is a poison.
Giving her a lot of other new things all at once isn't good for her system.
Handling her is only adding to the stress

"Probios" is helpful but not a necessity, and it's not a "medicine" so most Vets wouldn't think to mention it at all
Cream of wheat is just GRAIN.
There's no reason it would really help much at all

He told you the name of the worm, so now it's up to YOU to find out more about it.

I didn't hear the conversation, but I do know how to spell it: Haemonchus contortus (barber’s pole worm)
http://www.scsrpc.org/SCSRPC/FAMACHA/famachainfoguide.htm

It's not that relevant though, since most wormers kill ALL the common worms except tapeworms.

I'd never expect a Vet to "talk to" a sheep.
I want them to TREAT the sheep, and talk to me

The sheep doesn't care at all

He did not call me today with the fecal results, I had to call him multiple times before he answered

Maybe he was out saving someone else's animals?
I know YOU were concerned, but realistically, the fecal results aren't a high priority when the sheep has already been treated

If you want fecals for your other animals, you need to collect and label fresh samples to take to him.

If you don't like him, don't use him again, but I really don't see anything that warrants calling and complaining

Doing some resarch on your own about treating anemia in sheep would be more productive than complaining about his sheepside manner​

 

[Beekissed]

I would have to agree with pretty much all of that except...

...I think the probios are always a good idea after a sheep has had diarrhea just to help reculture the bowel.

 

[NateinFL]

Quote:
I think it's possible she might be... certainly the post care, hydration, drench, baster feeding *some*thing to keep her from crashing, and the no-callback, and the not putting what was used to treat are big big deals.

I think some vets don't believe the probios do much, don't know how the scientific proof stands on this. I think it helps, I'm not sure every vet would agree. that said, a vet should be able to suggest extra measures if the client is willing to try everything.

cream of wheat is a new one on me, (so thank Dr. Sara for me

) but it makes good sense. its a mark of her experience, and that's cool. I have to say it's not been suggested by any of my 3 sheep experienced vets in CA, so I'll probably pass it along to them as well. given it's the first time I've heard it too, so personally, I wouldn't consider it a ding on the other vet, but a plus on Dr. Sara. the fact that he didn't suggest ANYthing is definitely a ding.

on not taking sheep calls, yep, that should have been the first thing he said, and the second should have been "here's who you can call that has experience." still, in a dire emergency, you have to take what you can get, and an inexperienced vet may be better than no vet.

if the "leave her alone" was about you not spending time with her and staying out of the pen when you're not actively treating her... well, that's appropriate for sheep that aren't pets... they're stressed by the presence of people and that can affect them badly. but it would have been much better to ASK if she's used to people or not. if it was about "don't do anything else to treat her", well that would be very bad advice indeed... in my sheep breeder, non-veterianarian opinion.

there are vets that see livestock in a utilitarian way... how much is this sheep worth ($) and how much will it cost to get them well (in vet care, drugs, supplies and time). there are some owners that see the same thing. and there are vets and owners that think you should do everything humanly possible, regarless of the expence or time required. part of having a great relationship is the vet understanding where on that scale you are... and then acting accordingly.

I've spent hundreds of dollars on a sheep that wasn't worth nearly what the vet bill came to. but there is a limit, and at some point I will say, that's enough. I have had to teach some vets what to expect from me, in terms of how much work I'll do to save an animal (more than most) and how much money I can spend (more than many). but a savy vet will learn that quickly and know to ask if they're not sure.

this guy sounds 1) young, 2) inexperienced in sheep, 3) inexperienced in client (human) care, 4) utilitarian, and 5) in need of coaching, or perhaps overwhelmed. this combination *might* work for some clients, but clearly a bad fit for you. and likely to have him traded out by many other clients too. from a purely business standpoint, that's bad for the vet business he's working for and they should know about it, and then coach him to bring him up to a higher standard of performance. if they don't, he'll cost them clients.

on a personal level, if he's fresh out of school, he deserves the chance to learn and grow. but NOT to the point where he's making errors that affect the health of my animals. it's hard to be new and still have to get everything right... but if he needs help, he should be asking for it, not just wandering around on his own.

Thanks, I agree. I called him back on the Probios and cream of wheat and he said "sure, go ahead and do that". I am now wondering if the fecal was ever acted upon, as when I called the office, they had nothing on it, and told me I needed to call him. That's when I got the name of the worm he didn't know how to spell. Also the fact that he told me that I could go ahead and give her more B Vitamins but she's just going to "piss it all out".

Marjorie is status quo.

I wish she would get up and start eating. Haven't seen that yet.

 

[cassie]

I haven't read all the posts, but has she been wormed again with a different product? Until the worm load is decreased her appetite will not come back. Also, thiamine might be hepful. Unfortunately you have to get it from the vet. Ruminents are prone to thiamine deficiency, particularly when they are not eating and/or their rumens are not functioning properly. If you cannot get a bottle of thiamine from the vet, you can up the thiamine intake by giving a LOT of B complex.

 

[zzGypsy]

Bear Foot,
I know you've got a lot of experience, you've posted some things on other threads I found quite helpful. so know that I *respectfuly* disagree on a couple of things.
Quote:
Maybe he was out saving someone else's animals? valid point, however a call back should be made if promised. and reasuring anxious clients is part of good business practice.
I know YOU were concerned, but realistically, the fecal results aren't a high priority when the sheep has already been treated. that's presuming the cause was indeed worms. certainly the most likely cause, however there can be other reasons for anemia and worming them won't treat those other causes. a fecal test, even after the fact is a way of making sure you've given the right treatment. we had a horse that went anemic and we were never able to determine the cause... it wasn't worms and we could have wormed him every 14 days forever and done nothing more than poison him. in that case the post-treatment fecal told us what *not* to do. likely the right treatment was given here, but as an owner, I like to know the cause of things whenever possible.
certainly my own doctor has treated me for respiratory infections, and at the same time taken a culture. on a couple of occasions they've said "stop taking the medication we gave you, we have a new perscription for you" based on the results of the culture.

If you want fecals for your other animals, you need to collect and label fresh samples to take to him. true. and I think it would be proper practice for the vet to suggest that

If you don't like him, don't use him again, but I really don't see anything that warrants calling and complaining well you already know where I stand on that

Doing some resarch on your own about treating anemia in sheep would be more productive than complaining about his sheepside manner

self educating is a fine idea, one I heartily recommend. however, even though I'm a voratious self-educator, I've learned a great many important things from my excellent vets who've been good teachers. besides, from a purely business standpoint, it's made me a VERY loyal client to those vets. beacuse I know not only will they treat my animal, but they'll make me a smarter owner. and that's pretty good clientside manner