Shinto Dragon Jumbo Coturnix Project

[SimonGrow]

I found this article posted by another forum member and feel it is worth reposting as it contains lots of beneficial information.
http://animalscience.ucdavis.edu/Avian/Coturnix.pdf

Simon

 

[Hurley]

Just curious with the leg issues due to weight, has anyone selected for bone size? I would think a simple leg diameter or circumference below the hock where it is mostly skin and bone at certain age or weight would help select towards bigger / stout framed birds to carry the bigger heavy muscled birds. Just curious, has it has been looked at or trialed?

 

[SimonGrow]

I selected for bone size and height of bird with my first hatch of JMF meat maker birds. I had about 18 males from my first hatch and one male bird in particular was very tall and his legs were noticeably larger than all the other birds. This bird also weighed more at my weekly weigh ins so I used him as one of my breeding males. He weighed a bit over 10 oz last time I weighed him but I'm about to start my breeding project over with new lines from James Marie Farms.

I will be looking for thicker legs and taller stature as part of my selection criteria for my new birds. I will also be following the Tatanka standards.

Simon

 

[SimonGrow]

I'm really excited to get my next set of eggs from James Marie Farm and I'm so glad Robby is helping me out. I will be receiving his new line of meat birds that is crossed with the Canadian line of jumbo Browns that JMF received in 2014. This new line is the meat makers and James Marie line crossed over the Canadian line. Robby is about 6 generations deep with this line and he is trying to constantly improve upon it.

I will also be getting his delayed onset of laying line which sounds very promising and a few double recessive whites.

Anyways, I'm really excited and was wondering if anyone has any good ideas about easy supplements that we can give our birds that may have a big impact on the nutrition our birds receive?

According to this article, http://tru.uni-sz.bg/tsj/TJS-Vol.6 N4 2008/Genchev_kachestvoEn.pdf
Glutamine is the major non essential amino acid in the meat of quail. Glutamine is a non essential amino acid that can be made from glutamic acid. I focus on this amino acid because it is the major component of the skeletal muscle and powdered forms are easily available at nutrition stores, body builders often take it as a supplement. I wonder if supplementation of this amino acid will help with adding size to our birds?

We should also talk about Lysine and Leucine as these two essential AAs cannot be made by quails but I'm not sure how difficult it would be to find powdered forms of these AAs.

In the meantime, I will be growing more organic wheatgrass and supplementing my birds water with as much wheatgrass juice as I can churn out. Wheat grass is high in protein, minerals and live plant enzymes, if you can get it to your birds within about 15 minutes. I already juice wheatgrass for my family so juicing extra for my birds will not impose much additional work to my routine.

By adding high nutrition supplements to my quails water, I can hopefully increase the health of my birds and maximize their genetic potential. From my observations, it appears my quail drink about twice as much water as they take in from their dried crumble food. I know they drink a lot of water so adding wheatgrass juice is an easy way to sneak in extra protein and vitamins and minerals without filling up your birds. If you think about it cows pack on a lot of meat and have strong bones, mostly by eating grass.

Simon

 

[deliciouspits]

My new found knowledge with breeding for size is double yolked eggs. I was excited when my italian jumbo x birds were growing fast and getting more to the type I was going for..they started laying double yolks.I have tried to just incubate the normal sized eggs,but its 1 in 4.The hens are getting too big for the male to mount right

 

[SimonGrow]

I get quite a few double yolk eggs, I'm wondering if it was because I gave them artificial light for about 16-18 hours a day. I have cut back my lighting to approx 12 hours and I seem to get fewer double yolks. My James Marie Farm birds lay very large eggs.

For my new line of quails coming in from JMF, I will try to only hatch eggs that are 15 grams or higher as long as they are not double yolks.

Simon

 

[dc3085]

Hens that go on and off lay will often drop double yolk eggs when they come back on. Changing protein quantity in feed can cause it too. Some birds ovaduct never 'figure it out' and theyll lay them periodically. When they start laying after time off or for the first time it takes a while for the ovaduct to become consistent in its operation.

 

[SimonGrow]

Thanks dc3085! Do you think I will be negatively affecting my birds in any way by having my lights on for 11 hours, then off for 4 hours, on for thirty minutes, off for 4 hours, on for thirty minutes, dark for the rest of the night?

I'm trying to delay egg laying so that more resources will go into the bones and flesh of my birds.

Simon

 

[WaterfowlWierdo]

So I have not read through this entire forum, but I intend to when I am out of school today. I love the scientific approach and feel that more breeders need a scientific state of mind even beyond genetics. I have a suggestion (not sure if it has been mentioned yet as i havent read it all) I think you should experiment through different feed bases; corn, wheat, or legume (soy). and see if there is any difference in meat or egg production and growth rates. Leave all other factors the same-niacin, methionine, vitamins and minerals, and only change the base. Also, dont use a commercial feed if you decide to try this suggestion, Go to a feed mill yourself and have them make you up, down to the ingredient, everything you want. that way your not going off some label on the bag that can fluctuate seasonally

 

[SimonGrow]

Hello WaterfowlWierdo,

Thanks for the input. I'm just a backyard quail hobbyist so I do not have the facilities necessary to experiment much. I believe one of the most important aspects to raising Jumbo quail are total % of protein in their feed and commercially available feeds such as Purinas non medicated Startena crumbles for Game Birds is tried and tested. I'm sure Purina puts lots of money into research of their feeds.

By using a commercially available feed, you can get consistent nutrition to your birds. By adding additional nutritional supplements like Wheatgrass juice, I hope to trigger genes that may be expressed when growing conditions such as nutrition is optimized.

I've even thought about trying to increase Oxygen levels to increase the size of birds but decided it's too much work. I want to keep this a fun hobby and not have it turn into work so I'm looking for the simplest ways of getting large healthy birds of approximately 14 oz size.

I believe the best way is to have excellent genetics, I use James Marie Farms, feed high protein foods 28-30% protein and know your birds. I'm still a rookie and I know now that Extreme heat can be very detrimental to the growth rate of Jumbo quail.

Simon