Should I be feeding Medicated Starter Feed or Non medicated Chick Crumb?

[Bear1978]

Thanks all!

 

[JacinLarkwell]

I
I used to insist on it for new biddies. But over the last year or so, I've been told that its outlawed now and I can't get it. I don't care what anyone else thinks, I've read all about the pros and cons. But I never lost a chick on it but now I can't get it so I don't. I'm in Texas.

Why is It outlawed? We have the chick medicated stuff at our stores.



I usually feed it for about 2 weeks and then switch to normal. It's hard though because the crumbs are way bigger than nonmedicated feed

 

[Bear1978]

Thanks! Mine are about 3 weeks old and have been on regular starter chick feed. I’m still back and forth about switching them to medicated or not before putting them outside and keeping them on it for a bit while they’re still getting used to being in a chicken yard and coop.

 

[bobshere]

I feed medicated up until 16 weeks. Some believe in it and some don’t. I find it’s a good preventative and seems to work for me

 

[JacinLarkwell]

I feed medicated up until 16 weeks. Some believe in it and some don’t. I find it’s a good preventative and seems to work for me

That's kinda the same with me, besides the age. I figure usually any losses I have are before 2 weeks and I rarely have any after then. This was my first year using medicated feed and I lost 3 chicks in the brooder out of almost 40 all together (I think 2 were having different problems though, so I only know 1 that didn't have a definite cause)

 

[Bear1978]

I just tossed a handful of grass and few weeds (mainly grass) with some root and dirt attached into my brooder to give them a little exposure to the outside stuff. So time will tell!

 

[Rosy Starling]

Someone told me if I start feeding medicated then I will always have to feed, ie, Medicated Growers etc. and so on forever.

Not true

Also they said that the Non Medicated was more beneficial for the chicks having better nutrients and vitamins etc.

Not true

Another question, should I be getting my little home flock vaccinated? What issues are they likely to come up against?

Vaccinated against what? Different hatcheries offer different vaccinations.

I've been told that its outlawed now and I can't get it

What medicine is in that medicated feed? Some medicines may be banned while others are not. Who outlawed it, your city, county, or state. Different jurisdictions can have different rules. Or did you talk to a feed store employee that did not know what they were talking about?

@Rosy Starling I'm going to copy something I wrote a few years back that might give you enough information to make an informed choice. Hope it helps.

First you need to know what the "medicated" is in the medicated feed. It should be on the label. Usually it is Amprolium, Amprol, some such product, but until you read the label, you really don't know. Most "medicated' feed from major brands for chicks that will be layers uses Amprolium, but there are a few out there mostly for broilers that use other medicines. I'll assume yours is an Amprolium product, but if it is not, then realize everything I say about it may not apply. And it is possible that the "medicated" is Amprolium AND something else.

Amprol is not an antibiotic. It does not kill anything. It inhibits the protozoa that cause coccidiosis (often called Cocci on this forum) from multiplying in the chicken's system. It does not prevent the protozoa from multiplying; it just slows that multiplication down. There are several different strains of protozoa that can cause Cocci, some more severe than others. Chickens can develop immunity to a specific strain of the protozoa, but that does not give them immunity to all protozoa that cause Cocci.

It is not a big deal for the chicken’s intestines to contain some of the protozoa that cause Cocci. The problem comes in when the number of those protozoa gets huge. The protozoa can multiply in the chicken’s intestines but also in wet manure. Different protozoa strains have different strengths, but for almost all cases, if you keep the brooder dry, you will not have a problem.

To develop immunity to a specific strain, that protozoa needs to be in the chicks intestines for two or three weeks. The normal sequence is that a chick has the protozoa. It poops and some of the cysts that develop the protozoa come out in the poop. If the poop is slightly damp, those cysts develop and will then develop in the chick's intestines when the chicks eat that poop. This cycle needs go on for a few weeks so all chicks are exposed and they are exposed long enough to develop immunity. A couple of important points here. You do need to watch them to see if they are getting sick. And the key is to keep the brooder dry yet allow some of the poop to stay damp. Not soaking wet, just barely damp. Wet poop can lead to serious problems.

What sometimes happens is that people keep chicks in a brooder and feed them medicated feed while they are in the brooder. Those chicks are never exposed to the Cocci protozoa that lives in the dirt in their run, so they never develop the immunity to it. Then, they are switched to non-medicated feed and put on the ground where they are for the first time exposed to the protozoa. They do not have immunity, they do not have the protection of the medicated feed, so they get sick. Feeding medicated feed while in the brooder was a complete waste.

I do not feed medicated feed. I keep the brooder dry to not allow the protozoa to breed uncontrollably. The third day that they are in the brooder, I take a scoop of dirt from the run and feed it to them so I can introduce the protozoa and they can develop the immunity they need to the strain they need to develop an immunity to. To provide a place for that slightly damp poop, I keep a square of plywood in the dry brooder and let the poop build up on that. I don't lose chicks to Cocci when they hit the ground.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding medicated feed to chicks, whether the protozoa are present or not. It will not hurt them. They can still develop the immunity they need. But unless the protozoa are present, it also does no good.

If you get your chicks vaccinated for Cocci, do not feed medicated feed. It can negate the vaccinations.

Thank you for that concise and informative advice. It certainly helps give me a more thorough understanding. I had already decided to keep them on unmediated, although I can easily get medicated. That quote was by someone else. I am in the UK and I think they are from somewhere in the US. I called my chicken savvy vet and she has advised me, her reasoning is she would rather not treat something that there is no evidence of & potentially build up resistance to certain drugs. However, I will certainly be keeping a close eye on them. In the brooder I find I am slightly ocd and have been cleaning them out multiple times a day so as to not leave much poop in the brooder, I notice they do pick at it a bit, also it is in my spare bedroom so want to keep the smell down I don,t have any other chickens, these are my first so my land probably does not have any Cocci protozoa living in it, or will it? I guess they will not be exposed to this until they are old enough to go outside, at which point I will be monitoring them for any illness.

 

[Rosy Starling]

Someone told me if I start feeding medicated then I will always have to feed, ie, Medicated Growers etc. and so on forever.

Not true

Also they said that the Non Medicated was more beneficial for the chicks having better nutrients and vitamins etc.

Not true

Another question, should I be getting my little home flock vaccinated? What issues are they likely to come up against?

Vaccinated against what? Different hatcheries offer different vaccinations.

I've been told that its outlawed now and I can't get it

What medicine is in that medicated feed? Some medicines may be banned while others are not. Who outlawed it, your city, county, or state. Different jurisdictions can have different rules. Or did you talk to a feed store employee that did not know what they were talking about?

@Rosy Starling I'm going to copy something I wrote a few years back that might give you enough information to make an informed choice. Hope it helps.

First you need to know what the "medicated" is in the medicated feed. It should be on the label. Usually it is Amprolium, Amprol, some such product, but until you read the label, you really don't know. Most "medicated' feed from major brands for chicks that will be layers uses Amprolium, but there are a few out there mostly for broilers that use other medicines. I'll assume yours is an Amprolium product, but if it is not, then realize everything I say about it may not apply. And it is possible that the "medicated" is Amprolium AND something else.

Amprol is not an antibiotic. It does not kill anything. It inhibits the protozoa that cause coccidiosis (often called Cocci on this forum) from multiplying in the chicken's system. It does not prevent the protozoa from multiplying; it just slows that multiplication down. There are several different strains of protozoa that can cause Cocci, some more severe than others. Chickens can develop immunity to a specific strain of the protozoa, but that does not give them immunity to all protozoa that cause Cocci.

It is not a big deal for the chicken’s intestines to contain some of the protozoa that cause Cocci. The problem comes in when the number of those protozoa gets huge. The protozoa can multiply in the chicken’s intestines but also in wet manure. Different protozoa strains have different strengths, but for almost all cases, if you keep the brooder dry, you will not have a problem.

To develop immunity to a specific strain, that protozoa needs to be in the chicks intestines for two or three weeks. The normal sequence is that a chick has the protozoa. It poops and some of the cysts that develop the protozoa come out in the poop. If the poop is slightly damp, those cysts develop and will then develop in the chick's intestines when the chicks eat that poop. This cycle needs go on for a few weeks so all chicks are exposed and they are exposed long enough to develop immunity. A couple of important points here. You do need to watch them to see if they are getting sick. And the key is to keep the brooder dry yet allow some of the poop to stay damp. Not soaking wet, just barely damp. Wet poop can lead to serious problems.

What sometimes happens is that people keep chicks in a brooder and feed them medicated feed while they are in the brooder. Those chicks are never exposed to the Cocci protozoa that lives in the dirt in their run, so they never develop the immunity to it. Then, they are switched to non-medicated feed and put on the ground where they are for the first time exposed to the protozoa. They do not have immunity, they do not have the protection of the medicated feed, so they get sick. Feeding medicated feed while in the brooder was a complete waste.

I do not feed medicated feed. I keep the brooder dry to not allow the protozoa to breed uncontrollably. The third day that they are in the brooder, I take a scoop of dirt from the run and feed it to them so I can introduce the protozoa and they can develop the immunity they need to the strain they need to develop an immunity to. To provide a place for that slightly damp poop, I keep a square of plywood in the dry brooder and let the poop build up on that. I don't lose chicks to Cocci when they hit the ground.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding medicated feed to chicks, whether the protozoa are present or not. It will not hurt them. They can still develop the immunity they need. But unless the protozoa are present, it also does no good.

If you get your chicks vaccinated for Cocci, do not feed medicated feed. It can negate the vaccinations.

Just read that - Yes, it can be present on the land where there have not been chickens. So what medication should I have in my first aid box in case they do show signs. Corid liquid solution? I will check my local feed supplier. Signs and symptoms of this disease to look out for may include pale comb and skin, blood in the feces, yellow or foamy feces, a general look of un-wellness and unkemptness, weakness and listlessness, and lack of thirst or appetite. Many thanks again for your help and advice.

 

[Bear1978]

Yes! I decided to simply switch mine to Nutrema Natirewise as it does have active probiotics in the feed whereas the stuff they were on did not. I would rather my chick build up an immunity to it as best they can. The probiotic feed has all the good microorganisms in it to help them develop a healthy gut which, from what I’ve read, helps them fight off the bad stuff- like cocci. And as you I have not had chickens in my yard and they’re going on 4 weeks old so I’ve just been putting a handful is dirt and grass in the brooder to start to get them somewhat exposed to the outside environment. Anyway, I have a tendency to overthink and over analyze things like this so this is what I’ve decided to do. And yes, liquid corid is what I’ve been told to keep on hand. Also, you can get the probiotic powder to mix with their water as well. But this is all my 2 cents on the matter.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Just read that - Yes, it can be present on the land where there have not been chickens.

Can be but not always is. And some places are more at risk than others. It thrives in hot humid places like the US Gulf Coast. Cooler drier places are at less risk. In the UK you qualify as a cooler place but can be damp so some risk but not that bad. Leaking waterers can keep areas wet and brooders often have pretty warm spots, I don't think anyone can totally discount the risk.

I like your vet by the way. I also don't believe in treating anything unless there is a reason. But if there is a reason I will.

Personally I do not keep Corid handy, I haven't needed it. The feed store has it so it's available whenever they are open, pretty much every day except Sundays. If you need it you generally need it pretty quickly so I'm taking a bit of a chance but experience has told me I probably won't need it. I'm not sure how long it is good for, hopefully there is an expiration date on it. It needs to be stored in a cool dark place.