Should I build a enclosed run or not

[randani70]

I currently have a coop in the suburbs with 19 chickens with a 84 sq ft coop and 240 sq ft run, I normally just let them free range in my 6ft fence area like 120ft by 80ft thou morning to night and lock them in there coop at night. Havnt had any predators and notice my birds like my run but don't really use it when the doors are open. I'm getting ready to buy a pice of land in the country. 28 arces with 4 of that cleared, the rest of it planted pine. I want to build my new coop 24' by 12', fence in like 2 arces with a 4 foot fence to keep them out of any garden I put in and to confine them a little bit. I want like 100 hens maybe like 5 roosters. Most of them Being RIR.
Now here comes my questions.
I was wondering if I should also build a run around that if I might plan on doing 24 7 free range and or should I continue to lock them up at night and build a run thinking 40 by 30 surrounding the coop so 8 ft all sides. Or is there other options I could do about predators I thought about the motion lights, leaving a light on 24 7, pair of licensed guard dogs, getting rid of and trapping pest. Now according to my real estate lady, she said there is no coyotes, but I'm assuming there is foxes, opossums , Hawks, raccoons and black snakes thou.
I don't want to have to put all the money and time in a run of you don't think it is needed. Figured maybe the rosters and maybe lights and the 4 ft 2 arce fence should be enough. But if I need a run I will build one. Thank you.

 

[Ridgerunner]

It’s a personal choice. You don’t need a run until you do. What the run does is give you flexibility.

If you keep the same number of chickens that will be a real nice coop. You can probably leave them locked in the coop by itself for a day or two, though with multiple roosters that may become a problem. Still, you would not be in horrible shape if you needed to lock the chickens up for a while.

I don’t use my run a lot. It’s split into two parts, normally opened, but part of it can be isolated with my grow-out coop. I use that feature when I’m integrating. I have an area about 35’ x 90’ enclosed in electric netting that they can roam in along with my 12’ x 32’ run.

Predators are a great unknown. Some people can go years without an attack yet others are pretty much wiped out almost instantly. You can have a specific predator visit the area every night for a long time and not show any interest in the chickens, then one night it does. Or a young one freshly weaned may be out looking for its own territory.

Before I got my electric netting my chickens free ranged. I lost two chickens to foxes over a three year span. When I lost one I’d leave the chickens locked in my run for about a month, long enough for the fox to learn there was not a free meal available. The reason I got the electric netting was not wildlife. On two different occasions someone dropped dogs off in the country for the good life. The first attack cost me eight chickens, the next five. The electric netting stopped others that were dropped off plus all foxes and such. During that first dog attack I was gone, so I locked the remaining chickens in the run when I got home. The next day when the dogs came back I was able to get the dogs without them getting any more chickens.

When I process chickens for the freezer, I lock the chickens in the run so they don’t see what is going on. If they were free ranging they’d be over looking for a free handout and likely getting in the way.

There are times I use herbicides, fertilizers, or insecticides that I did not want the chickens to get into, so they were left in the run for a few days after I sprayed.

Chickens will eat many fruits, berries, and a lot of stuff in your vegetable garden. They will scratch mulch in landscaping beds all over the place. You might need to contain them while you take care of this.

I don’t know what your place in the country will look like, but what a run does is give you flexibility in fixing a problem if it shows up. I think it is fair to say that my parents kept chickens totally free ranging in the country, some even sleeping in trees, and they never had a run. I remember two predator attacks, a fox and a dog that were both shot. I left home at 18. That was a lot of time without a predator attack.

A four foot fence will not stop many predators. They can jump it, climb over or dig under. Properly installed electric wires will transform that into a real predator barrier but you need to keep the weeds and grass from growing up in it and shorting it out. It won’t stop everything, I’m thinking mainly snakes but a few others may make it through, but it does pretty much stop most ground predators, even the ones that could jump it if they tried. Most of the ones that can jump it will investigate it first, usually with their nose though someone said they smeared peanut butter on theirs so it would be licked. Once the predator gets shocked they pretty much just leave the area and don’t return.

Good trained livestock guard dogs are a great tool to help with predators as long as they live outside 24/7. If you make house dogs out of them they will not do you any real good. I’m amazed at how many people do that and then complain.

Trapping will not totally solve your problem but it will help a lot. In the past two weeks I’ve removed two raccoons and two possums. Most predators like this normally hunt the same territory. If you remove them you are at least removing the ones that are hunting your area. But new ones are being born, raised, and weaned all the time. Then they have to find their own territory to hunt. Trapping is a good deterrent but it is not a solution.

Bottom line, I like my run for the flexibility it gives me, but you may be fine without one. If you have a problem and need to be somewhere, like work or a wedding, you can lock them up and solve that problem on your schedule. I don’t know how it will work out for you.

 

[cajun chicken]

It’s a personal choice. You don’t need a run until you do. What the run does is give you flexibility.

If you keep the same number of chickens that will be a real nice coop. You can probably leave them locked in the coop by itself for a day or two, though with multiple roosters that may become a problem. Still, you would not be in horrible shape if you needed to lock the chickens up for a while.

I don’t use my run a lot. It’s split into two parts, normally opened, but part of it can be isolated with my grow-out coop. I use that feature when I’m integrating. I have an area about 35’ x 90’ enclosed in electric netting that they can roam in along with my 12’ x 32’ run.

Predators are a great unknown. Some people can go years without an attack yet others are pretty much wiped out almost instantly. You can have a specific predator visit the area every night for a long time and not show any interest in the chickens, then one night it does. Or a young one freshly weaned may be out looking for its own territory.

Before I got my electric netting my chickens free ranged. I lost two chickens to foxes over a three year span. When I lost one I’d leave the chickens locked in my run for about a month, long enough for the fox to learn there was not a free meal available. The reason I got the electric netting was not wildlife. On two different occasions someone dropped dogs off in the country for the good life. The first attack cost me eight chickens, the next five. The electric netting stopped others that were dropped off plus all foxes and such. During that first dog attack I was gone, so I locked the remaining chickens in the run when I got home. The next day when the dogs came back I was able to get the dogs without them getting any more chickens.

When I process chickens for the freezer, I lock the chickens in the run so they don’t see what is going on. If they were free ranging they’d be over looking for a free handout and likely getting in the way.

There are times I use herbicides, fertilizers, or insecticides that I did not want the chickens to get into, so they were left in the run for a few days after I sprayed.

Chickens will eat many fruits, berries, and a lot of stuff in your vegetable garden. They will scratch mulch in landscaping beds all over the place. You might need to contain them while you take care of this.

I don’t know what your place in the country will look like, but what a run does is give you flexibility in fixing a problem if it shows up. I think it is fair to say that my parents kept chickens totally free ranging in the country, some even sleeping in trees, and they never had a run. I remember two predator attacks, a fox and a dog that were both shot. I left home at 18. That was a lot of time without a predator attack.

A four foot fence will not stop many predators. They can jump it, climb over or dig under. Properly installed electric wires will transform that into a real predator barrier but you need to keep the weeds and grass from growing up in it and shorting it out. It won’t stop everything, I’m thinking mainly snakes but a few others may make it through, but it does pretty much stop most ground predators, even the ones that could jump it if they tried. Most of the ones that can jump it will investigate it first, usually with their nose though someone said they smeared peanut butter on theirs so it would be licked. Once the predator gets shocked they pretty much just leave the area and don’t return.

Good trained livestock guard dogs are a great tool to help with predators as long as they live outside 24/7. If you make house dogs out of them they will not do you any real good. I’m amazed at how many people do that and then complain.

Trapping will not totally solve your problem but it will help a lot. In the past two weeks I’ve removed two raccoons and two possums. Most predators like this normally hunt the same territory. If you remove them you are at least removing the ones that are hunting your area. But new ones are being born, raised, and weaned all the time. Then they have to find their own territory to hunt. Trapping is a good deterrent but it is not a solution.

Bottom line, I like my run for the flexibility it gives me, but you may be fine without one. If you have a problem and need to be somewhere, like work or a wedding, you can lock them up and solve that problem on your schedule. I don’t know how it will work out for you.

Great info here! Thank you ridge runner. That is why I love this forum, good people aND great info!!!

 

[randani70]

It’s a personal choice. You don’t need a run until you do. What the run does is give you flexibility.

If you keep the same number of chickens that will be a real nice coop. You can probably leave them locked in the coop by itself for a day or two, though with multiple roosters that may become a problem. Still, you would not be in horrible shape if you needed to lock the chickens up for a while.

I don’t use my run a lot. It’s split into two parts, normally opened, but part of it can be isolated with my grow-out coop. I use that feature when I’m integrating. I have an area about 35’ x 90’ enclosed in electric netting that they can roam in along with my 12’ x 32’ run.

Predators are a great unknown. Some people can go years without an attack yet others are pretty much wiped out almost instantly. You can have a specific predator visit the area every night for a long time and not show any interest in the chickens, then one night it does. Or a young one freshly weaned may be out looking for its own territory.

Before I got my electric netting my chickens free ranged. I lost two chickens to foxes over a three year span. When I lost one I’d leave the chickens locked in my run for about a month, long enough for the fox to learn there was not a free meal available. The reason I got the electric netting was not wildlife. On two different occasions someone dropped dogs off in the country for the good life. The first attack cost me eight chickens, the next five. The electric netting stopped others that were dropped off plus all foxes and such. During that first dog attack I was gone, so I locked the remaining chickens in the run when I got home. The next day when the dogs came back I was able to get the dogs without them getting any more chickens.

When I process chickens for the freezer, I lock the chickens in the run so they don’t see what is going on. If they were free ranging they’d be over looking for a free handout and likely getting in the way.

There are times I use herbicides, fertilizers, or insecticides that I did not want the chickens to get into, so they were left in the run for a few days after I sprayed.

Chickens will eat many fruits, berries, and a lot of stuff in your vegetable garden. They will scratch mulch in landscaping beds all over the place. You might need to contain them while you take care of this.

I don’t know what your place in the country will look like, but what a run does is give you flexibility in fixing a problem if it shows up. I think it is fair to say that my parents kept chickens totally free ranging in the country, some even sleeping in trees, and they never had a run. I remember two predator attacks, a fox and a dog that were both shot. I left home at 18. That was a lot of time without a predator attack.

A four foot fence will not stop many predators. They can jump it, climb over or dig under. Properly installed electric wires will transform that into a real predator barrier but you need to keep the weeds and grass from growing up in it and shorting it out. It won’t stop everything, I’m thinking mainly snakes but a few others may make it through, but it does pretty much stop most ground predators, even the ones that could jump it if they tried. Most of the ones that can jump it will investigate it first, usually with their nose though someone said they smeared peanut butter on theirs so it would be licked. Once the predator gets shocked they pretty much just leave the area and don’t return.

Good trained livestock guard dogs are a great tool to help with predators as long as they live outside 24/7. If you make house dogs out of them they will not do you any real good. I’m amazed at how many people do that and then complain.

Trapping will not totally solve your problem but it will help a lot. In the past two weeks I’ve removed two raccoons and two possums. Most predators like this normally hunt the same territory. If you remove them you are at least removing the ones that are hunting your area. But new ones are being born, raised, and weaned all the time. Then they have to find their own territory to hunt. Trapping is a good deterrent but it is not a solution.

Bottom line, I like my run for the flexibility it gives me, but you may be fine without one. If you have a problem and need to be somewhere, like work or a wedding, you can lock them up and solve that problem on your schedule. I don’t know how it will work out for you.

This is what I was thinking as well, with the flexibly that is why I love my current run, but thought with 24/7 free range would it be a waste of time.
With the mutiple rosters I was thinking for protection with the flock and to not over work one roster, 20 to 1 is still maybe to much work not sure havnt had a chance to have my own roster yet. What do you think about that.

The 4 ft fence is going to be like 1600ft long , going out of the coop or run a area for the birds to graze but try to keep them in. I know they can jump it but I thought maybe with the big area they would want to stay in, like I have a 6ft now and I have had a bird jump that twice but they get so stressed out wanting back in. Do you think the 4 ft will keep most of the birds in.
I'm thinking most if not all RIR flock. Looking for good egg production of good sized brown eggs, and good for a farm style, little bit of good life span, but also desirable chicks to sell at poultry swaps.( can't stand it when I ask someone there breeds they laugh and say Idk little bit of this little bit of that I have rosters come and go) I would like to get all RIR roosters then a few differnt hens like RIR, maybe Barred rock, any other breeds anyone reccomend that breeds well with a RIR.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Part of it depends on exactly why you want a rooster. A relatively young vigorous active rooster should not have any problems keeping 20 hens fertile in a situation like that, but some roosters are more vigorous than others. Some hens may resist certain roosters’ advances more than others also. If fertility is your goal, it will probably work out. With living animals you don’t get any guarantees though.

My expectations of a rooster defending his flock are not as high as many people on this forum. Sometimes a rooster will give his life for his flock or fight off a potential predator, but mine are more likely to lead the flock to safety rather than commit suicide. They are more effective as an early warning system, spending more time watching for danger than other flock members. When there is something suspicious going on they will often position themselves between the flock and that activity, going to check it out. They do add some security but in my opinion, not a lot.

Many people keep chickens inside 3’ high fences, yet even full sized adult chickens can easily clear that if they want to. It basically comes down to motivation. If they want to get out bad enough they will. My electric netting is 48” high and mine generally don’t get out though I’ve seen an adult Black Australorp hen casually fly over that when she got out through a gate and I was trying to herd her back toward that gate to get her back inside. My area inside my electric netting is a whole lot less than yours will be. I think you have an excellent chance of keeping them in your fence.

One thing that often happens. A chicken likes to perch. If the top of your fence looks like a good place to perch a chicken may fly up there just for fun and who knows which side it will decide to hop down on? Not having a top rail on your fence or a fence post that looks inviting is a good way to stop that. Extending wire about 6” above any top rail or fence post that could be a perch is a good thing in my opinion.

I do occasionally have a chicken get out of mine. It’s practically always young cockerels that get in fights near the fence or trapped in a corner. The loser will often go vertical to get away when he feels trapped. He might come down on the wrong side of the fence. A hen trying to get away from an amorous rooster might do the same thing but that has been really rare. I’ve learned to not make my corners too tight and to not position my netting in long narrow strips. Rather spread it out.

I’m kind of weird about breeds too, I just don’t put much faith in breeds. To me for a chicken to be a “breed” that not only means they need to look like the breed but they have to have the behaviors and production traits that breed is supposed to have. You are not going to get that with hatchery chicks. With the pen breeding methods they normally use where they might keep 20 roosters in with 200 hens, mating is random. It’s not like a breeder that carefully selects which rooster breeds with which hen. Also hatcheries are not usually looking at behavioral traits or certainly not meat production traits. If it’s anything other than general colors, patterns, and hopefully some look at conformation, egg production is about all they enhance.

With most breeders you can get bigger chickens since they are bred to be bigger and are fed a special diet so they grows bigger. Many are just looking at the traits the judge sees. A judge does not see the egg the hen lays or the behaviors of that chicken in a flock situation. They don’t know how long it took that chicken to get that big or how much feed it took to get it to grow. What you get from a breeder depends on how good that breeder is and what traits they are breeding for. If you can find a breeder that is breeding for the traits you want you are certainly way ahead to get those chickens to start your flock, but those just might be pretty darn expensive. The good ones take pride in their chickens plus it is expensive to raise the good ones. Another good thing would be to find someone who is not breeding a “breed” but is purely breeding for the traits you want. Those are hard to find too.

Sometimes when you read about rare or endangered breeds you will be pretty surprised at the breeds you see listed as endangered. The people making those statements are looking at the entire chicken and the flock’s traits, not just show qualities. While a lot of people are raising RIR’s for show, it is often mentioned that there are only about three people in the US keeping true flocks of RIR’s. One of those used to be a really active member of this forum and he was not shy about expressing his opinions.

Where I’m headed with all this is to get several different breeds and try them out. Breed the ones that act like the chickens you want, regardless of breed. In a very few generations you can get a flock that pretty much meets your goals if you know what your goals are and select your breeding stock according to those goals.