Should I force division of flock to roost?

[Perris]

many thanks for the suggestions all; I will experiment!

 

[Perris]

@Shadrach , as a proponent of multiple coops, do you have any suggestions?

 

[aart]

a coop big enough (by Poultry Club GB standards) for 8 large fowl.

What exactly does this mean, in meters by meters?
Pics would help.

 

[Shadrach]

Hey Perris.

I don’t know if I can help Perris though it won’t be for the lack of wanting to.

I’ve never hand built a tribe if you get me, they’ve done it by themselves. And the other people I’m in touch with who also have multi coop systems say the same. I’m in touch (sometimes anyway) with a guy in Finland who has built a tribe but his chickens are more like game birds and the families throw the kids out and that’s when he builds a new coop. I’ll write to him and ask but he’s pretty ‘way out there’ and goes super feral for weeks!
I’ve been scrabbling around your posts and I’m not sure what you’ve got in the way of chickens as in breeds, ages, etc.
I started off with a flock and a tribe (Marans and bantams mixed) and (bantams only). The tribe was in a coop and run 24/7.
When I freed the bantam tribe the bantams from the flock just moved in with the other bantams. It was overcrowded for the bantams but the Marans had loads of space.

As they bred, those with the stronger bantam genes moved in with the other bantams and those with the stronger Maran genes moved in with the Marans. Eventually through breeding in lower order h3ens there came a point when neither established tribe wanted the pullets and cockerels; these made a new tribe and so on.

I get pasted ever time I mention this but ine and the others people I know who have multi coop systems the breeds tend to stick together and the families even more so. If the chickens are related, they’ll live together. If they are related and of the same breed they’ll live together. If they are neither of the preceding then you can make them live together but given a choice they’ll favour family and breed type.

I’m about to face the situation where one tribe has got to big for the coop. I don’t like large fixed coops because I like to be able to move the coops to fresh ground from time to time. I’m going to build another coop and connect it to one of the existing with a wall door. The plan is to get the chickens to use two entrances, the ones I want to adopt the new coop through one door and the others through the old door. Eventually I will close off the interconnecting door and separate the coops. However, ideally I need an adult rooster to achieve this for the new tribe and atm he’s still too young. So there is one possible solution.

You could split by breed and see how that goes. If you know who is related to who you could split by family.

You could ‘import’ a rooster of one of your breeds and hope the hens go for him. Bear in mind you can force chickens to live together but you can’t force the hens to fancy a rooster. If they don’t they’ll stick with what they have during the day and the imported rooster will hang around the outskirts of the flock until he manages to attract some hens. This does work, but it takes time and you’ll be mopping up blood for a while until the boys and hens finish fighting to establish a new order.

Also, the success of multi coop chicken keeping requires space. Despite what people think roosters rarely fight over hens, because they know the hen has to choose them. They may force her to mate but they can’t force her to live with them or follow them about. What they do fight over is resources and the more range for these you can give them the less they seem to fight. It’s about freedom of movement to the favourite eating and bathing spots. The rooster had to impress the hens with his ability to get them the resources they want and that means the freedom to cross other tribes territories. It’s surprisingly complex. Jungle fowl still live in asimilar manner I’m lead to believe but often in much tighter family units. There are a few reports of unrelated groups of jungle fowl living in the same tree but on separate branches; that’s the type of idea I’m working on with the double coop arrangement mentioned above.

Let me know what you’ve got Perris and I’ll have a think.

 

[Perris]

thanks both! This is the established coop (for 8); 1.4m x 1m x 1m inside +nest boxes,

with 2 perches of 90cm usable length, and the second is a bit smaller version of the same thing. It disassembles easily for cleaning. I move it periodically to fresh ground, a practice I want to continue, which is why I didn't just go for a bigger coop. There's no run; once the door's open they can go where they like. They do go into nearby woodland, fields, and neighbours' gardens and fortunately, nobody minds. They are a Swedish Flower cock + pullet (unrelated I think), 2 Norfolk Grey pullets (half sisters), 2 Araucana hens (no idea of their relationship to one another) plus 2 unrelated Araucana chicks (8 wks old), and 1 RIR hen. The NGs (30 wks old) do not submit to the cock but all other girls do. The broody Araucana is the dominant hen. If I was going to try to force some of them to use the new coop, I would have gone for the NGs, as they have only recently started hanging out with the rest of the flock during the day, and they are always last to bed. But I was not sure of the wisdom of doing that, which is why I posted asking for advice... I am not in a hurry and by instinct prefer to work with nature not against it.

 

[aart]

This is the established coop (for 8); 1.4m x 1m x 1m inside +nest boxes,

Tight, really tight, space for even 4 birds..... IMO.....and no ventilation.
At least you're not dealing with extreme temps, according to this.

 

[Perris]

It might seem so, but when I look in to close them up, invariably 5 or 6 are on one perch and only 1 or 2 on the other (though that's changed to 4 in the last two days as the chicks have moved to roost on the perches too). But overcrowding is of course why I got the second coop...which takes us back to post #1

there's ventilation beneath the eaves, both sides, one element fixed open, 3 adjustable.

And yes, no extremes of weather or climate. Frost a few days per winter, snow 1 yr in 10 or thereabouts, for a day or three if we're lucky, and rarely above 80F in summer. No hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, floods, or other hazard, fortunately. The coop does not get noticeably hotter or colder than the environment amazingly.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

That is definitely not big enough for 8 no matter what the manufacturer is trying to tell you. Each chicken has a need for personal space. Submissive members must remain at least 5 feet away from a dominant member or else they will get pecked. 10 feet is better.

If the one can't get away, and the dominant member is in the mood, the submissive member will pay the price.

Chickens aren't packing peanuts. Just because you can put them all in the box doesn't mean they are happy that way. Crowding causes stress and aggression. You are lucky it has worked up to this point.

 

[jolenesdad]

I would not forcefully separate the lowest ones on the pecking order, i think it would lead to more picking on them during the times the flocks were together.

I’d imagine as these chicks grow you’ll start to see some overcrowding issues because they’ll need to work into the pecking order at various stages of their growth. Good for trying to figure it out now, it’s a nightmare with limited space once it starts happening.

What are the reasons you want to move the coop? maybe we can help you with ideas on a design that gives more space and still meets those needs for you, too.

 

[Chickassan]

Can you join the two coops together via a breezeway? It works and isn't that hard. If you start early you can have it done in a day easy. Excuse the mess in my photos it was at the end of the second coops construction. But yeah all I did was join them with a little center breezeway. I didn't have to move or get them use to much of anything. The original coop still being there made it much, much easier.