Show king pigeons as meat birds?
- Thread starter Mihris
- Start date
I'm looking to get Giant Runts. Not sure if they're the same, or not. I'm learning about pigeons.
Zenmonkey
Songster
Giant Runts and Kings are different breeds, but the difference between "show" and "production" are similar for both breeds.
If you are reading this and show pigeons or other animals, I may give offense here. It isn't intentional, but I haven't shown animals since the youthful 4H days.
The show birds are bred to specifications to perform as well as possible in the show ring. Those breeders don't need a large number of animals, as they're only going to be showing a small number of their very best animals. Large numbers of offspring are somewhat of a liability, as you have to do *something* with them, and pigeons are out of fashion for eating in many areas.
"Best" and "quality" here are defined as matching the standard of perfection for that breed. Such standards need to be based on things that the judge can inspect and confirm in the show ring. So production numbers don't tend to get included. The AKC runs into issues with working breed dogs because their judges work from conformation, color, posture, etc rather than how handily they can herd sheep, guide cattle, or find birds without flushing the bird.
On the other hand, production kings require that production be the first thing you select for. It's OK if the bird doesn't have the perfect body shape, as long as it cranks out pairs of squab rapidly and consistently. The instinct and ability to keep two nests of youngsters pumped full of pigeon milk trumps how well feathered it is.
So when faced with the choice for selecting breeders, and you've got one pair that feathers out poorly, but produces lots of babies, versus another pair that stops breeding during their molt so they've got the protein to push into feathers? The show breeder and the production breeder make different choices.
If all you have access to is show quality stock, use that. Just apply production breeder decision making. It'll be fine. If you later find someone with stock more in line with what you want, don't think too hard about adding some new birds.
I once had some dark Cornish from a breeder who took great pride in their birds. They were indeed some pretty birds. Also they never left my backyard, so I was the only one who enjoyed them.
They didn't lay many eggs at all, and they would go broody at the drop of a hat. But they were delicious! Self hatching, delicious, and friendly as anything!
I suspect the breeder unconsciously selected for friendly, brooding hens, because something about that combination also made them better show birds. Easier to handle maybe? They'd do their molt quickly and get over it, and that was somehow tied to broodiness? Again, I haven't shown in decades, so I'm shooting in the dark here.
But sure, if you've got access to show kings, have at it. I suspect they'll still be plumper than a random homer. Though homers tend to be prolific. If they turn out to be really slow breeders, you might try mixing in a homer or two for the production.
And if you end up with a number of birds, you can select children from the most prolific pairs to be your new breeders.
Even if you butcher them more or less at random, those that produce the most offspring will tend to be over represented and thus slowly dominate anyway.
After a couple generations of that, you're not still going to have quality show kings. But hopefully you'll have some quality production kings.
Best wishes!
*Edit because between my aging brain and auto correct, sometimes words are hard.
If you are reading this and show pigeons or other animals, I may give offense here. It isn't intentional, but I haven't shown animals since the youthful 4H days.
The show birds are bred to specifications to perform as well as possible in the show ring. Those breeders don't need a large number of animals, as they're only going to be showing a small number of their very best animals. Large numbers of offspring are somewhat of a liability, as you have to do *something* with them, and pigeons are out of fashion for eating in many areas.
"Best" and "quality" here are defined as matching the standard of perfection for that breed. Such standards need to be based on things that the judge can inspect and confirm in the show ring. So production numbers don't tend to get included. The AKC runs into issues with working breed dogs because their judges work from conformation, color, posture, etc rather than how handily they can herd sheep, guide cattle, or find birds without flushing the bird.
On the other hand, production kings require that production be the first thing you select for. It's OK if the bird doesn't have the perfect body shape, as long as it cranks out pairs of squab rapidly and consistently. The instinct and ability to keep two nests of youngsters pumped full of pigeon milk trumps how well feathered it is.
So when faced with the choice for selecting breeders, and you've got one pair that feathers out poorly, but produces lots of babies, versus another pair that stops breeding during their molt so they've got the protein to push into feathers? The show breeder and the production breeder make different choices.
If all you have access to is show quality stock, use that. Just apply production breeder decision making. It'll be fine. If you later find someone with stock more in line with what you want, don't think too hard about adding some new birds.
I once had some dark Cornish from a breeder who took great pride in their birds. They were indeed some pretty birds. Also they never left my backyard, so I was the only one who enjoyed them.
They didn't lay many eggs at all, and they would go broody at the drop of a hat. But they were delicious! Self hatching, delicious, and friendly as anything!
I suspect the breeder unconsciously selected for friendly, brooding hens, because something about that combination also made them better show birds. Easier to handle maybe? They'd do their molt quickly and get over it, and that was somehow tied to broodiness? Again, I haven't shown in decades, so I'm shooting in the dark here.
But sure, if you've got access to show kings, have at it. I suspect they'll still be plumper than a random homer. Though homers tend to be prolific. If they turn out to be really slow breeders, you might try mixing in a homer or two for the production.
And if you end up with a number of birds, you can select children from the most prolific pairs to be your new breeders.
Even if you butcher them more or less at random, those that produce the most offspring will tend to be over represented and thus slowly dominate anyway.
After a couple generations of that, you're not still going to have quality show kings. But hopefully you'll have some quality production kings.
Best wishes!
*Edit because between my aging brain and auto correct, sometimes words are hard.
Last edited:
Finchbreeder
Songster
Excellent explaination there Zen
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