Sick peas

[Yoda]

Safeguard *does* treat gapes, and I can post studies that show that, but I cannot find any studies that show ivermectin as an effective wormer, and certainly have not seen it referenced to treating gapes *anywhere* but BYC. No offense intended to anyone here... I know that you and many others here have been doing things a certain way, which is fine, but please, I would love to seen some properly published studies that back these worming claims.

when I get back on the computer I will post what I have.

FYI, I used Tylan once, which is why I suggested the OP get a dosing recommendation from the vet. Safeguard and Baytril, those I have used often. You told the OP to give 1cc of Tylan 200, but many young hens weigh less than 3kg, so 1 cc would be too much for them, right? At 40mg/kg a large mature hen would get 160mg, a large mature male would get 240mg, but a small 2013 hen might only need 80mg, this is why one cannot/should not say "just give it X", 'cause all medications, other than the ones you put in water should be given based on weight.

And yes, I did miss you!

-Kathy

here are some links:
http://blogs.thatpetplace.com/thatb...-birds-kept-in-outdoor-aviaries/#.Uv2teCtAKao
http://www.colchesterpoultryclub.com/health.htm

Kathy you need to understand that Ivermectin pour on for cattle is being used off label (other then cattle)so chances of you finding it somewhere is going to be slim. There was a website that listed the type of disease/parasite and then what wormer to use and Ivermectin was listed to cure gape worm but I cannot find that website cause I cannot remember the name LOL. I called the Tylan company and asked them what dose to use in peafowl and they told me they do not give doses for use off label, but I most likely will find the proper dose online she said LOL Here is a report about the toxicity of Tylosin. You have to give the bird a very very large dose to OD it. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/746615 I bought my dog to the vet for a hematoma on her back. The Vet gave me antibiotics and told me not to start them for 3 days cause they gave the dog a 3 day shot of the antibiotic that day. Now the directions on the bottle said to give the dog 1 pill 2 times a day and not to exceed 2 pills a day but yet the Vet gave the dog a 3 day shot. If I am giving my adult bird 1.5cc shot one time that's it I am NOT giving the bird that shot for 3-5 days how is it going to be over dosed? You are giving your bird .5cc a day for 5 days - you are giving your bird a lot more then I am. See I do not want to catch my birds everyday to give them a needle, that is very stressful and stress will kill the bird before I do. Why give the bird tylan 200 because it is not as strong as Baytril and if the bird builds a resistance to it then I have the Baytril as back up. When I get an infection my doctor puts me on the Z PAC and the next time it's Amoxacillin and then it is another antibiotic that I cannot remember the name to LOL He rotates them so the infection isn't use to it and won't resist the drugs. Here is the reason why baytril is banned http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/news/050915_baytril Kathy food poisoning is a sickness and hope no one gets it so yes it CAN make you sick that's why it was banned. To post a comment stating that you claim it cannot make you sick is just wrong - if it didn't make you sick they would not have banned it

I also wanted to add that we use Ivermectin for gape worm cause one dose lasts almost 30 days so there is no second dosing. Here's a thread about gape worms and coughing with treatments https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/669165/coughing-peacock

 

[KsKingBee]

We got our order in from Valley Vet today and gave each pea an injection of Tylan. Of the 21 birds about six had swollen eyes, a couple of them almost completely shut. Four of the birds were gaping and have very raspy breathing. Of the four one had a lot of white cheese in the airway, one had a little and the other two had none but looked quite distressed trying to breathe. We saw no nasal discharge on any of the birds

Question: Should I do any medicating of the water or just rely on the Tylan injections?

We plan on doing a deworming program the first of March as you have laid out in the worming thread.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[Yoda]

The Tylan should be enough and you should start seeing results each day. You will be surprised how fast it works.

 

[casportpony]

We got our order in from Valley Vet today and gave each pea an injection of Tylan. Of the 21 birds about six had swollen eyes, a couple of them almost completely shut. Four of the birds were gaping and have very raspy breathing. Of the four one had a lot of white cheese in the airway, one had a little and the other two had none but looked quite distressed trying to breathe. We saw no nasal discharge on any of the birds

Question: Should I do any medicating of the water or just rely on the Tylan injections?

We plan on doing a deworming program the first of March as you have laid out in the worming thread.

Thanks for all the help!

I don't want to scare you, but a sick pea can die from this sort of thing... The feedstore I go to lost two recently when all 28 of theirs had something similar. Keep a very close eye on the sickest ones and be prepared to provide emergency supportive care, it's not usually the disease that kills them, it's dehydration and starvation.

I am available by phone if you need help, just PM me.

-Kathy

 

[KsKingBee]

I don't want to scare you, but a sick pea can die from this sort of thing... The feedstore I go to lost two recently when all 28 of theirs had something similar. Keep a very close eye on the sickest ones and be prepared to provide emergency supportive care, it's not usually the disease that kills them, it's dehydration and starvation.

I am available by phone if you need help, just PM me.

-Kathy

I can not thank you enough for the kind offer! We are going to be gone all day today but we will take a close look tomorrow morning and if need be will PM you. This morning we fed rather quickly, two of them were still kind of mopey. I expect the drug to start showing improvement by tomorrow, if not I will get a hold of you. Thanks again!

On a side note, all the chickens except one are really responding well to the tetracycline, that one will get a shot of Tylan tomorrow. All the gunieas and turkeys who share the same water never showed any symptoms.

 

[casportpony]

I can not thank you enough for the kind offer! We are going to be gone all day today but we will take a close look tomorrow morning and if need be will PM you. This morning we fed rather quickly, two of them were still kind of mopey. I expect the drug to start showing improvement by tomorrow, if not I will get a hold of you. Thanks again!

On a side note, all the chickens except one are really responding well to the tetracycline, that one will get a shot of Tylan tomorrow. All the gunieas and turkeys who share the same water never showed any symptoms.

that the Tylan kicks in. FYI, sent you a PM with my number just in case.

-Kathy

 

[Yoda]

Did you order the Tylan 50 or Tylan 200? Either way, call your vet and ask what dose of Tylan your peas should get. My book says the dose should be one of these:

• 40mg/kg
• 10-40mg/kg 2-3 times a day
• 30mg/kg every 12 hours

-Kathy

I called the Tylan company and and asked then what the proper dose was for using the drug in peafowl a couple months ago. The Vet that works for them called me back and told me there was not one, that I was using the drug off label and she could not prescribe a dose for poultry using Tylan 50 & 200. Now low and behold there is one in your book. The only Tylan/tylosin available that is an injection is for cattle not birds. She said the only Tylosin/tylan for poultry is a powder. So how can there be a dose in your book if the manufacturing maker said there isn't one? I will go one step farther and ask my Vet on Monday about this.

 

[casportpony]

I called the Tylan company and and asked then what the proper dose was for using the drug in peafowl a couple months ago. The Vet that works for them called me back and told me there was not one, that I was using the drug off label and she could not prescribe a dose for poultry using Tylan 50 & 200. Now low and behold there is one in your book. The only Tylan/tylosin available that is an injection is for cattle not birds. She said the only Tylosin/tylan for poultry is a powder. So how can there be a dose in your book if the manufacturing maker said there isn't one? I will go one step farther and ask my Vet on Monday about this.

Most medicines we use are "off label". Safeguard, ivermectin, Valbazen and Corid that's labeled for cattle, and the doses listed on those products are often not the proper doses for poultry. For example, Safeguard for goats is 5mg/kg, but many vets and books will say it's much higher for poultry. Safeguard for dogs is 50mg/kg and Safeguard for horses is 5mg/kg *or* 10mg/kg depending on what you're worming for.

This link is from a two volume book set and it has lots of tylosin info:
http://avianmedicine.net/content/uploads/2013/03/09_therapeutic_agents.pdf

It's from this book set:


Which is available online for free:
http://avianmedicine.net/publication_cat/clinical-avian-medicine/

-Kathy

 

[KsKingBee]

I called the Tylan company and and asked then what the proper dose was for using the drug in peafowl a couple months ago. The Vet that works for them called me back and told me there was not one, that I was using the drug off label and she could not prescribe a dose for poultry using Tylan 50 & 200. Now low and behold there is one in your book. The only Tylan/tylosin available that is an injection is for cattle not birds. She said the only Tylosin/tylan for poultry is a powder. So how can there be a dose in your book if the manufacturing maker said there isn't one? I will go one step farther and ask my Vet on Monday about this.

Sometimes I wonder if it is just the luck of the draw who you get on the phone. I called the manufacturer to ask for mixing directions for small amounts of the powder, the container said to mix the entire bottle in a gallon of water and then mix that into fifty gallons of water and use it within three days. His answer, after looking it up, was one teaspoon per gallon. When asking about the injectable he said that was an off label use for anything other than cattle and swine and that he could not make a recommendation.

 

[casportpony]

Sometimes I wonder if it is just the luck of the draw who you get on the phone. I called the manufacturer to ask for mixing directions for small amounts of the powder, the container said to mix the entire bottle in a gallon of water and then mix that into fifty gallons of water and use it within three days. His answer, after looking it up, was one teaspoon per gallon. When asking about the injectable he said that was an off label use for anything other than cattle and swine and that he could not make a recommendation.

I had the same "off label" conversation with someone at Corid - It's labeled for cows, we can't tell you Jack! So I called the mfg for Amprol, which is labeled for poultry, and the guy I talked to said that they make both Corid and Amprol and he had no issues telling me what the doses for poultry are.

-Kathy