Signs of inbreeding

[quailmann]

Hi

Can someone knowledgeable give a list of all the signs of inbreeding?

Buttercup Chillin had mentioned somewhere that laying too late is one of them

 

[Robbot]

I'm not an expert but usually the most obvious sign is physical defects at hatch (missing eyes, twisted beaks etc. Defects can be caused by incubator errors check incubator calibration and try another hatch)

Always check eggs that don't hatch for signs of inbreeding and incubation errors.

Ive found that late layers usually end up being the best layers. bigger eggs more of them and for longer

 

[dc3085]

Laying too late as in how? As in laying at 12 weeks vs 6 weeks? That's no kind of positive indication of inbreeding, If I worked at it for a year I could breed coturnix to lay closer to 12 weeks than 8, it's a genetic trait not a sign of inbreeding. Honestly there is no way to look at your birds and know. Physical defects will happen in severely inbred birds but you'll see a drop in fertility and hatchability of the eggs long before. As long as there were no or at least few sibling pairing typically you won't see any issues in quail. Birds have different tolerance for inbreeding than a lot of species. For a quail to find another bird to mate that was in no way related to it, it would have to go on a crazy exodus every breeding season, so they don't, and they breed with birds they do have common ancestry with. Make sure you aren't making sibling pairings and try to avoid repetitively breeding offsrping x parent. In line breeding my birds I pushed the envelope a long ways and still never saw any physical defects.

Just curious why do you think your birds are inbred?

 

[Fat Daddy]

Strongly agree with Don here.... As long as you use good stock. Use common sense when grouping breeders. Its unlikely you see a inbreeding problem. None of the issues above would solely be a inbreeding issue. Any line will have culls. I know of lines that have went for years with no new blood and no issues.... I have also bought eggs from popular "breeders" that were a total train wreck.

 

[James the Bald]

Laying too late as in how? As in laying at 12 weeks vs 6 weeks? That's no kind of positive indication of inbreeding, If I worked at it for a year I could breed coturnix to lay closer to 12 weeks than 8, it's a genetic trait not a sign of inbreeding. Honestly there is no way to look at your birds and know. Physical defects will happen in severely inbred birds but you'll see a drop in fertility and hatchability of the eggs long before. As long as there were no or at least few sibling pairing typically you won't see any issues in quail. Birds have different tolerance for inbreeding than a lot of species. For a quail to find another bird to mate that was in no way related to it, it would have to go on a crazy exodus every breeding season, so they don't, and they breed with birds they do have common ancestry with. Make sure you aren't making sibling pairings and try to avoid repetitively breeding offsrping x parent. In line breeding my birds I pushed the envelope a long ways and still never saw any physical defects.

Just curious why do you think your birds are inbred?

After reading this post, I did a google search. There were 3 studies on inbreeding Japanese Quail. Here is one study that was completed in 2007. The aims of the study was to compare genetic diversity between line bred and random bred quail. One line went 17 generations. Depressed fertility and survivability were the issues. Seventeen generations? If the average breeder can't purchase a dozen or so eggs to introduce into the line every 3rd or 4th generation, then they would be asking for fertility issues.
Of course, you have to have a quality pedigree to begin with.
James

 

[stephstuckman]

So I have two little groups, 1 roo each with 6 or 7 hens. I am still confusing myself on how to breed my groups next year and so on without breeding siblings. Is it better for me to just get a dozen eggs or so every spring to get new roosters? I may only have one rooster by tomorrow. The A&M pecked a big spot of skin and sn eye out of a hen today, bad enough I culled her. I don't want those genetics in my birds. He balded 3 othe hens as well. Oddly enough he only pecks the goldens and red tux, not the 4 other white ones with him.

 

[quailmann]

Laying too late as in how? As in laying at 12 weeks vs 6 weeks? That's no kind of positive indication of inbreeding, If I worked at it for a year I could breed coturnix to lay closer to 12 weeks than 8, it's a genetic trait not a sign of inbreeding. Honestly there is no way to look at your birds and know. Physical defects will happen in severely inbred birds but you'll see a drop in fertility and hatchability of the eggs long before. As long as there were no or at least few sibling pairing typically you won't see any issues in quail. Birds have different tolerance for inbreeding than a lot of species. For a quail to find another bird to mate that was in no way related to it, it would have to go on a crazy exodus every breeding season, so they don't, and they breed with birds they do have common ancestry with. Make sure you aren't making sibling pairings and try to avoid repetitively breeding offsrping x parent. In line breeding my birds I pushed the envelope a long ways and still never saw any physical defects.

Just curious why do you think your birds are inbred?

Sorry for the late reply
Some birds have leg issues, walking on one leg
Some birds have a 45 degree crooked neck. Really pains me to see them run around perfectly healthy but with crooked necks!
I have stock from 2 breeders, trying to cross F1 roosters of one to P1 birds of the other breeder and keep swapping like that

 

[Fat Daddy]

Id cull very hard for any defects like this..... These are traits you will keep seeing if you dont. Even if the stock is good, you'll still see culls.... Maintaining a good line requires you to eliminate the traits you dont want, to do this you must eliminate the birds that carry them.... A bird with bad legs or a crooked neck is a meat pen bird or out right cull. Some try poly vi sol for young birds with crooked necks, feeling its sometimes a vitamin issue..... it may be in some cases..... I have had a few out of 1000's of birds over the years. I tried to treat a couple early on..... now its a instant cull......

EDIT TO ADD: They are not perfectly healthy if they are running around on one leg or with a crooked neck. They are just still running around.....

 

[Sill]

Sorry for the late reply
Some birds have leg issues, walking on one leg
Some birds have a 45 degree crooked neck. Really pains me to see them run around perfectly healthy but with crooked necks!
I have stock from 2 breeders, trying to cross F1 roosters of one to P1 birds of the other breeder and keep swapping like that

Often crooked necks are an incubation issue.