Silkies (I think?) - gender?!

[pittsburgh_chickens]

Hey there! We acquired, what we were told, were 3 Silkies a couple weeks ago. We were told they were 3 days old but I believe they're a bit older than we were told. I think they're around 4 weeks old now? They're all rather aggressive - they chase each other, fight with each other, peck at me when I try to handle them. They're all generally a pain, but one is a bigger jerk than the others. They're behavior is noticably different than the other chicks we have - which were all sexed as hens when he bought them (ISAs & Rhode Island Reds). Any thoughts on sex of these birds? Do they look like silkies to ya'll? How old do you think they are? Everything I read says silkies are so nice and friendly...but so far, not the case for us! ha! They also don't look like many other silkies I see posted online...they're not as floofy...but maybe they'll get there as they get older?

First photo is the day we brought them home.

Second & third photo is the crankiest one of the bunch.

Fourth photo, group one, is a little out of focus but I think the one on the left has some noticably different features than the one on right.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Fourth photo, group one, is a little out of focus but I think the one on the left has some noticably different features than the one on right.

Hi there, welcome to BYC!

Those are indeed some (hatchery quality) non bearded Silkies... the one on the left definitely being cockerel.

Age looks about right.. thinking the Silkies are older than the the reds due to the size disparity.

I bred Silkies for several years... some of them are complete Stew Pidasso's... starting out with the biting you describe and never get better. At home as a passionate breeder... we eat them boys, tolerate no bullies, and don't allow them to breed their poor attitudes forward... Hatcheries may not be interacting with their flock as much so may not be selecting for personality.... Their poofiness is still coming on. The right one might be a pullet or could be a slower maturing cockerel.. too soon to tell for sure unless they are showing their boy traits like the left... which I have seen identifiable on SOME (not most) as early as one day old (no joke), had them crow at 3 weeks and try to mate at 4 weeks.

That being said... please realize that if there is an age difference the older Silkies will be getting their hormones a little sooner... which bolsters confidence, increase pecking order antics and competition... and make them seem like a jerk in comparison to the ones who aren't getting those little surges yet. Around 3-4 weeks is when pecking order really starts getting more active. Before that they may be less interested/motivated.

I couldn't make out a third Silkie in the group pic.

Some Silkies are sweet... but that is not my true assessment of them. My true assessment is that they are handicapped when their crest blinds them sometimes making them calm. That along with their short legs make them easy to catch as a keeper. They still keep tight pecking order and bring a huge amount of fight to the party for such a small bird comparatively. They had zero issues holding their own in my mixed breed laying flock. But remember... it always rolls down hill and younger birds are down hill at least until they start getting some hormonal messages that might challenge status quo.

I have seen my Silkie boys take on and put Marans and others on the run.. Their still boys.. Start looking into altering his behavior from biting you, if you're going to be able to keep him.. I don't buy the whole dominance training thing... but there are lots of threads that discuss this and you will have to decide what makes sense and try some things.

I MIGHT try picking him up and carrying him around (always mindful of face attacks)... let him get his biting out without reacting... wear long sleeves or use gloves if needed. Walk around and do your thing... let him calm down and don't put him down until he relaxes. Once relaxed try to put down before too long, (maybe facing away from you and toss some treats in front of him.. might be trial and error). If you react to his bites... putting him down tells him biting (or fighting) works to get his way. But if it doesn't work his tiny little brain has to try and figure something else out. Kicking or other aggressive or challenging behaviors just escalate things most often. I don't like to be seen as part of the pecking order and not as a threat... but as a fixture that does as I please.. my flock, my hens, my joy.. get with the program.. or take a trip to camp Kenmore to cool your jets. (at the current age though there should be plenty of time for reform) Positive praise gets better result than negative criticism..

You MIGHT be able to poke him back, finger peck him, or even pull the feather a little on the back of the neck... is how other birds respond to each other. This is what I would usually do if they peck me when interacting once they go to roost... after settled down and dim, I like to approach and pet on their chest as this is when I find they are least flighty.

Just brainstorming ideas... all birds are individuals and your mileage may vary. Hope he adjust well and lives happily with the rest of you flock.

 

[pittsburgh_chickens]

Hi there, welcome to BYC!

Those are indeed some (hatchery quality) non bearded Silkies... the one on the left definitely being cockerel.

Age looks about right.. thinking the Silkies are older than the the reds due to the size disparity.

I bred Silkies for several years... some of them are complete Stew Pidasso's... starting out with the biting you describe and never get better. At home as a passionate breeder... we eat them boys, tolerate no bullies, and don't allow them to breed their poor attitudes forward... Hatcheries may not be interacting with their flock as much so may not be selecting for personality.... Their poofiness is still coming on. The right one might be a pullet or could be a slower maturing cockerel.. too soon to tell for sure unless they are showing their boy traits like the left... which I have seen identifiable on SOME (not most) as early as one day old (no joke), had them crow at 3 weeks and try to mate at 4 weeks.

That being said... please realize that if there is an age difference the older Silkies will be getting their hormones a little sooner... which bolsters confidence, increase pecking order antics and competition... and make them seem like a jerk in comparison to the ones who aren't getting those little surges yet. Around 3-4 weeks is when pecking order really starts getting more active. Before that they may be less interested/motivated.

I couldn't make out a third Silkie in the group pic.

Some Silkies are sweet... but that is not my true assessment of them. My true assessment is that they are handicapped when their crest blinds them sometimes making them calm. That along with their short legs make them easy to catch as a keeper. They still keep tight pecking order and bring a huge amount of fight to the party for such a small bird comparatively. They had zero issues holding their own in my mixed breed laying flock. But remember... it always rolls down hill and younger birds are down hill at least until they start getting some hormonal messages that might challenge status quo.

I have seen my Silkie boys take on and put Marans and others on the run.. Their still boys.. Start looking into altering his behavior from biting you, if you're going to be able to keep him.. I don't buy the whole dominance training thing... but there are lots of threads that discuss this and you will have to decide what makes sense and try some things.

I MIGHT try picking him up and carrying him around (always mindful of face attacks)... let him get his biting out without reacting... wear long sleeves or use gloves if needed. Walk around and do your thing... let him calm down and don't put him down until he relaxes. Once relaxed try to put down before too long, (maybe facing away from you and toss some treats in front of him.. might be trial and error). If you react to his bites... putting him down tells him biting (or fighting) works to get his way. But if it doesn't work his tiny little brain has to try and figure something else out. Kicking or other aggressive or challenging behaviors just escalate things most often. I don't like to be seen as part of the pecking order and not as a threat... but as a fixture that does as I please.. my flock, my hens, my joy.. get with the program.. or take a trip to camp Kenmore to cool your jets. (at the current age though there should be plenty of time for reform) Positive praise gets better result than negative criticism..

You MIGHT be able to poke him back, finger peck him, or even pull the feather a little on the back of the neck... is how other birds respond to each other. This is what I would usually do if they peck me when interacting once they go to roost... after settled down and dim, I like to approach and pet on their chest as this is when I find they are least flighty.

Just brainstorming ideas... all birds are individuals and your mileage may vary. Hope he adjust well and lives happily with the rest of you flock.

Thanks so much for your reply! I've been handling the two that I think are roosters a lot more and they haven't bitten me in the last couple days. I'm a little concerned about what we're doing with them when it's time to make a decision on their fate - we can only have 1 rooster, max, and it's looking like one of our Rhode Island Reds may be a rooster too. The silkies can't have much meat on their bones, right? What age do you cull your silkie roosters? If we keep any, I'm leaning towards the RIR because he's really nice compared to the silkies but not making any decisions yet! haha!

 

[Friendly_Lurker]

Hey there! We acquired, what we were told, were 3 Silkies a couple weeks ago. We were told they were 3 days old but I believe they're a bit older than we were told. I think they're around 4 weeks old now? They're all rather aggressive - they chase each other, fight with each other, peck at me when I try to handle them. They're all generally a pain, but one is a bigger jerk than the others. They're behavior is noticably different than the other chicks we have - which were all sexed as hens when he bought them (ISAs & Rhode Island Reds). Any thoughts on sex of these birds? Do they look like silkies to ya'll? How old do you think they are? Everything I read says silkies are so nice and friendly...but so far, not the case for us! ha! They also don't look like many other silkies I see posted online...they're not as floofy...but maybe they'll get there as they get older?

First photo is the day we brought them home.
View attachment 2075186



Second & third photo is the crankiest one of the bunch.
View attachment 2075188
View attachment 2075187

Fourth photo, group one, is a little out of focus but I think the one on the left has some noticably different features than the one on right.
View attachment 2075189

How many toes have they got?

 

[pittsburgh_chickens]

How many toes have they got?

Looks like one extra, when compared to our others.

 

[Friendly_Lurker]

Looks like one extra, when compared to our others.

Silkies have five toes.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

The silkies can't have much meat on their bones, right?

Not much is still enough to feed a couple people, my barn cat, or make a good soup stock, and still better than wreaking havoc on an unbalanced flock. I have seen somewhat larger Silkies boys as well as very small.. depending on the line. Some folks process quail, so it's all relative. After doing this for a very long time now, if they are too small to be worth my time to pluck and gut... (I'm slow, so it takes me 45 minutes-hour) Then instead of using my cone to dispatch and process then I use a heavy bar to "broomstick" and either leave for the feral barn cat that keeps rats out or bury under a tree/bush I'm planting... Every day they had was good with one bad moment... If attitude isn't an issue, I would try to re home first on Craigslist farm & garden section. Usually several boys per year are lucky enough to find homes for 4h showing, flock leaders, etc. I mostly eat mine because I went in knowing that I would breed responsibly if I did and there's only room for so many.

I cull (or process) whenever it's convenient for me and I've built up enough courage/confidence (at first)... and depending on how their attitude is going.. meat wise, not usually before 16 weeks as late as 26 weeks... or older IF needed since I grow out all of my breeding prospects until such time as I can make an educated enough choice. Some dq's for breeding do present sooner than 16 weeks when working with a standard of perfection. Always rest 3-4 days for rigor to pass and meat to be less chewy. Silky meat itself is just fine regarding quality. If skinning, it won't matter.. but if plucking, make sure they aren't in the middle of a mini molt as pin feathers are more challenging to get out (and kinda gross when you do). That tip is for ease and doesn't make it a deal breaker. It will take a whole year for them to put on the next one pound or so between cockerel and rooster weight... so waiting longer will not benefit your wallet, if that's important. Also remember that super market chicken is processed at 6-8 weeks of age and most other breeds that aren't Cornish Rock crosses (or any of the many other names they are called by the industry), and therefore will already be a lot more toothsome (chewy, tough, stringy, even flavorful) than what most folks are accustomed to eating... but it's a worthy task!

I might not want to keep a red cockerel that would be mating a Silkie girl.. though I know some folks do keep large fowl roosters with bantam hens without injury. Sometimes with these things it's kinda play it by ear and switch it up if needed. You might consider giving your Silkies their own mini coop. Or if one of your reds is a boy.. you can keep them together as long as they aren't over mating the ladies all the time. Boys can get along. I keep my extra boys in their own pen, together. Called a stag pen by some.. until such time as eating or breeding. It has it's own challenges. Very much depends on your individual birds as well as your space and set up.. most of all, probably... YOUR goals.

Will add... beware of "nice" cockerels... what we mistake as friendliness is actually confidence (in some not all) and they're not afraid of you. In the chicken world.. (healthy) fear equals respect. Be sure to walk through them and not around them. Move deliberately and predictably without sudden sporadic changes. Don't make them into lap boys... instead, teach them to respect your space, handle them on YOUR terms instead of theirs. Again, I am not advocating the dominance training here, but rather understanding the body language... or communicating effectively so that you might raise a great boy... instead of falling in love, as I did... only to eventually have my handsome Swedish Flower boy get a hormone rush and try to pull a pullet out of my lap (to start off).. before the brushes to the back of my leg started and followed by full on sneak attacks, being stalked, and crowed at constantly when in eye shot.. no amount of reform was helpful by the time hormones had set in on my first rooster rearing... and it was a huge learning experience. I've had a lot of well balanced boys since then though. All are individuals. A few links on behavior... take what you can use and don't dwell on the rest.. I usually find bits and pieces helpful..

http://citygirlfarming.com/2017/09/26/what-your-chickens-body-language-is-telling-you/
https://www.yourchickens.co.uk/care-and-advice/chicken-body-language-1-4494696
https://freefromharm.org/chicken-behavior-an-overview-of-recent-science/
The red would be a better keeper if you have flock goals including egg laying ability or hatching for meat quantity.

Silkies have five toes.

Usually, unless poorly bred. Some hatchery stock may only have 4 toes on one leg. Several other breeds that also have 5 toes (and some feathered shanks) include Faverolles, Dorking, Houden, Sultan.. and in back yards a lot of Silkie crosses.

 

[pittsburgh_chickens]

Not much is still enough to feed a couple people, my barn cat, or make a good soup stock, and still better than wreaking havoc on an unbalanced flock. I have seen somewhat larger Silkies boys as well as very small.. depending on the line. Some folks process quail, so it's all relative. After doing this for a very long time now, if they are too small to be worth my time to pluck and gut... (I'm slow, so it takes me 45 minutes-hour) Then instead of using my cone to dispatch and process then I use a heavy bar to "broomstick" and either leave for the feral barn cat that keeps rats out or bury under a tree/bush I'm planting... Every day they had was good with one bad moment... If attitude isn't an issue, I would try to re home first on Craigslist farm & garden section. Usually several boys per year are lucky enough to find homes for 4h showing, flock leaders, etc. I mostly eat mine because I went in knowing that I would breed responsibly if I did and there's only room for so many.

I cull (or process) whenever it's convenient for me and I've built up enough courage/confidence (at first)... and depending on how their attitude is going.. meat wise, not usually before 16 weeks as late as 26 weeks... or older IF needed since I grow out all of my breeding prospects until such time as I can make an educated enough choice. Some dq's for breeding do present sooner than 16 weeks when working with a standard of perfection. Always rest 3-4 days for rigor to pass and meat to be less chewy. Silky meat itself is just fine regarding quality. If skinning, it won't matter.. but if plucking, make sure they aren't in the middle of a mini molt as pin feathers are more challenging to get out (and kinda gross when you do). That tip is for ease and doesn't make it a deal breaker. It will take a whole year for them to put on the next one pound or so between cockerel and rooster weight... so waiting longer will not benefit your wallet, if that's important. Also remember that super market chicken is processed at 6-8 weeks of age and most other breeds that aren't Cornish Rock crosses (or any of the many other names they are called by the industry), and therefore will already be a lot more toothsome (chewy, tough, stringy, even flavorful) than what most folks are accustomed to eating... but it's a worthy task!

I might not want to keep a red cockerel that would be mating a Silkie girl.. though I know some folks do keep large fowl roosters with bantam hens without injury. Sometimes with these things it's kinda play it by ear and switch it up if needed. You might consider giving your Silkies their own mini coop. Or if one of your reds is a boy.. you can keep them together as long as they aren't over mating the ladies all the time. Boys can get along. I keep my extra boys in their own pen, together. Called a stag pen by some.. until such time as eating or breeding. It has it's own challenges. Very much depends on your individual birds as well as your space and set up.. most of all, probably... YOUR goals.

Will add... beware of "nice" cockerels... what we mistake as friendliness is actually confidence (in some not all) and they're not afraid of you. In the chicken world.. (healthy) fear equals respect. Be sure to walk through them and not around them. Move deliberately and predictably without sudden sporadic changes. Don't make them into lap boys... instead, teach them to respect your space, handle them on YOUR terms instead of theirs. Again, I am not advocating the dominance training here, but rather understanding the body language... or communicating effectively so that you might raise a great boy... instead of falling in love, as I did... only to eventually have my handsome Swedish Flower boy get a hormone rush and try to pull a pullet out of my lap (to start off).. before the brushes to the back of my leg started and followed by full on sneak attacks, being stalked, and crowed at constantly when in eye shot.. no amount of reform was helpful by the time hormones had set in on my first rooster rearing... and it was a huge learning experience. I've had a lot of well balanced boys since then though. All are individuals. A few links on behavior... take what you can use and don't dwell on the rest.. I usually find bits and pieces helpful..

http://citygirlfarming.com/2017/09/26/what-your-chickens-body-language-is-telling-you/
https://www.yourchickens.co.uk/care-and-advice/chicken-body-language-1-4494696
https://freefromharm.org/chicken-behavior-an-overview-of-recent-science/
The red would be a better keeper if you have flock goals including egg laying ability or hatching for meat quantity.

Usually, unless poorly bred. Some hatchery stock may only have 4 toes on one leg. Several other breeds that also have 5 toes (and some feathered shanks) include Faverolles, Dorking, Houden, Sultan.. and in back yards a lot of Silkie crosses.

So much good info here! Thank you so much! I definitely believe two are roosters now - I'll get some updated pictures soon.

 

[pittsburgh_chickens]

So as an update, these are the two that have distinct features. Our third (not pictured) looks like a mix between the two - acts like a rooster, but isn't developing the wattles the other one is.

Safe to say the one with the comb and wattles is a roo at this point? He acts like one. The one I suspect to be a pullet is very sweet and laid back, also at the bottom of the pecking order so far. They should be about 5 weeks old now.

These chicks are with my ISA Browns and RIR's - but the silkies bigger than the other breeds so far. I thought maybe they were a little older but I think by now that should have evened out if they were bantams. I bought them at tractor supply so perhaps they're a mix, not 100% silkie? or just a larger variety? They don't seem like bantams that's for sure.