Silver Penciled/Partridge cross color genetics

[serendipityfarm]

I was told that I could improve type on my Silver penciled birds by crossing to Partridge (same pattern gold vs. silver variation?)

SP male X Pg female = f1 Silver-based females and gold-based males
breed f1 silver-based females back to original SP male = f2 silver penciled males & females

Can it really be that easy?
Any other suggestions?

 

[phasianidae]

Quote:
Almost, Partridge Wyandottes in the US have mahogany which will make for red shouldered silver males. The F1 will all have one copy of mahogany and half of the F2 will.

 

[WyandotteTX]

The cross is that simple. The male bird whether it be SP or Partridge crossed against the opposite female will produce females of the fathers color. There will be a brown tinge to the SP F1 females and the Partridge F1 female will be lighter in color. I am not going to quote any genetics, I am just going off of my own experience with SP and Partridge Wyandottes and the crosses I have done in the past. The males produced can be crossed against SP or Partridge females to produce either variety as well. I have used them in the past if they had good type. I have a few pictures that might help you understand visually.

Here is a young pullet that you can see the slight brown tinge to her color caused by the cross of SP/Partridge.

Here is a pic of an F1 SP/Partridge male being used over non-crossed SP hens. You can see a noticeable difference in how clear the SP females ground color is. He had better type than any of the true SP males I had at the time, so I was using him. I would get a few Partridge out of this cross as well but not many.

Lastly, here is a pic of a SP male who had no Partridge in his lineage.

 

[serendipityfarm]

Thanks!
The pics were very helpful, and just what I was looking for!
I'm actually working with cochins (or at least I will be when my chicks grow up!) I assume the color part of it is likely to be the same (or very similar) regardless of breed. I was told that Partridge was the best choice to try to improve type on poorly typed SP's, otherwise it is much more difficult to get the pattern back if you choose a solid color for type.
How many generations would you say it took before you breed out the brown tint?
And just out of curiosity, what was your goal when you used the cross?
~Terry

 

[WyandotteTX]

Terry,
My goal in crossing them was the exact same as yours is. I was trying to improve type and keep from inbreeding in my SP flock. Yes, I believe the same cross should work well with your SP and Partridge Cochins. To keep your color clear of the brown, always keep some SP that have not been crossed with Partridge that way you can use them to cross back to help clean up the brown color. At most it will take you three generations to clean up the ground color in the SP, maybe in 2 generations if your lucky.
Are you working on SP Cochin bantams? There are not many around that I know of, only place I have ever seen them for sale was on Strombergs and Ideals bantam lists.....If you are looking for good Partridge Cochin bantams I would try to get in touch with Jamie Matts of NY who is an excellent Cochin breeder, also Tom Roebuck has nice looking Partridge Cochin bantams as well( I think his name is Cochinman2005 on BYC). I would love to see some nice looking SP Cochins, hope you have success in your project.
John

 

[serendipityfarm]

Yes, I'm trying to start a SP bantam cochin project. Like you said there aren't many around. I ordered 6 chicks from Ideal through a friend, and we lost 4 in shipping (1 DOA and 3 more within 24 hrs), so I'm down to 2. If I'm lucky, a pair. I have seen some nice Partridges locally, so it was my plan to at least start with an SP male and good Partridge female. Then, we'll see what we get & go from there.
I really like the SP color, and like you said there aren't many out there, so though I am an amateur at all this, I may be able to actually accomplish something!
Thanks for your input!
~Terry

 

[horseygirl422]

How are the SP bantam Cochins coming along? Interested in the results. Thinking of doing something similar.

 

[snobunny27]

Hi guys. I'm kinda new to these varieties. I have standard sized partridge cochins and wanted to start raising some Standard sized Silver Penciled cochins. Problem is that they pretty much don't exist in standard sized cochins. Then, I started racking my brain as to how I might go about creating some using my partridge cochins. However, I don't think there is any other variety I could use other than silver penciled. What are your thoughts on outcrossing to another breed to eventually get some? What breeds could I feasibly use? I was thinking Silver Penciled Rocks but then I have to worry about the feathered feet. I don't really know anything about the genes that cause feathered feet but I'm guessing that's a questions for another subject. Then, I thought about Dark Brahmas. They have feathered feet, the silver penciled coloration and are standard sized. However, is there something that I should be aware of if I decide to cross these 2 breeds? You're probably wondering why not just raise Dark Brahmas? LOL! I suppose I could just forget about it and raise Brahmas (I do have light brahmas) but for some reason, brahmas are a little different than cochins. I like cochins better. Do you all think this is doable? Should I go for it?