Simulated Natural Nest Incubation~Experiment #1 So it begins....

[Beekissed]

As I was turning eggs this evening I realized that I was turning several eggs that were not developing when last I looked and that a broody hen would have removed those by now and eaten them. Well, I'm not going to eat them but feed them to the dog and flock I will, so I decided to thin the clutch.

I have 3 eggs that show development and a 4th that is iffy and I can't really tell but I know it's not as developed as the other three.

I took out the remaining 8 eggs and cracked them. This is what I found:

#1: Had a blood spot and quit at maybe the 3rd day. This egg was from one of my old (6 yr) reliable layers, a little NH called Little Red.
#2~Little Red's egg and no development, but appeared to have been fertilized, had a blood spot.
#3~Had a blood ring and quit at day 3.
#4~Unfertilized..another of LRs eggs and it's a puzzlement because I see that little gal getting bred constantly.
#8~Unfertilized
#9~Had a blood ring and quit day 3
#10~Unfertilized
#12~Unfertilized and with a blood spot

So I had 3 quitters, 1 fertilized but showed no development, 2 of the quitters had blood rings, 2 had blood spots(these were what looked like possible eyes floating around in there), 4 unfertilized.

The remaining doers are eggs 5,6, 7, and 11. Number 5 is my iffy egg...I just couldn't see enough to make a determination and it looked like blood vessels had formed. The others are very dark, one so dark I can't hardly see any space. I think I saw movement in a couple, but dark eggs and my eyes? Not sure if I'm seeing things or not.

So, four out of twelve....a lonely little clutch of eggs that will now receive all the heat and won't have to share. I don't know if these are good or bad results for incubation but this does seem to be developing some chicks. Whether they make it all the way and are fully formed and healthy will be the next thing to know about this method....can it produce chicks?

Temps are always stable now but I'll be watching for that temp spike on the 13 th day and will make adjustments as needed. I occasionally add water to the soil under the nest, it feels nice and moist there.

 

[subhanalah]

Not everyone kills their extra animals. Not everyone sells/gives them away. Not everyone eats their own. There are many different ways to do things here, one way is not the only right way to do things. Look at this experiment, for example. Some people have soft hearts, does it mean they shouldn't eat meat? No, it means some people appreciate the sacrifice of the life of the animal more than others for some it's a job, and for some it's painful and difficult but necessary. I don't think we should be so judgmental of one another. I don't think that is very indicative of a learning, friendly environment. Making sweeping generalizations isn't typically the best approach when you have a problem with what some people do.

P.s. just because someone does something doesn't mean he/she has to enjoy it, or even HAVE to talk about it. It's a more personal experience for some over others. Just because people don't openly share that personal information online e, that makes them a bad keeper? Like I said...broad generalizations are not good for any of us.

I mean...who are we? The thought police? I don't think so...maybe I've been watching too many documentaries lately...

 

[Beekissed]

Not everyone kills their extra animals. Not everyone sells/gives them away. Not everyone eats their own. There are many different ways to do things here, one way is not the only right way to do things. Look at this experiment, for example. Some people have soft hearts, does it mean they shouldn't eat meat? No, it means some people appreciate the sacrifice of the life of the animal more than others for some it's a job, and for some it's painful and difficult but necessary. I don't think we should be so judgmental of one another. I don't think that is very indicative of a learning, friendly environment. Making sweeping generalizations isn't typically the best approach when you have a problem with what some people do.

P.s. just because someone does something doesn't mean he/she has to enjoy it, or even HAVE to talk about it. It's a more personal experience for some over others. Just because people don't openly share that personal information online e, that makes them a bad keeper? Like I said...broad generalizations are not good for any of us.

I mean...who are we? The thought police? I don't think so...maybe I've been watching too many documentaries lately...

You know...I weighed any number of responses to this post but none could have had any effect. I realize that people will be offended by nearly anything I say on any number of topics and I cannot help that. How one perceives things said is a personal issue and can't be changed by me. If you saw red on that post, I'm sorry. If you feel I'm judgemental, again, I'm sorry. If you feel I'm lying or just being plain outright offensive, I am sorry.

I'll take down that post so that it no longer offends the sensitive nature you possess and so you won't have to display the judgement towards me and my posts that you profess to not be very fond of in MY posts.

I'm not sure if that will then make you happy but I cannot avoid offending others at times and I'm not perfect, so I'll just have to live with that.

 

[ChocolateMouse]

Bee, I dont think you have to appologize.

Some people who are not fit to keep chickens insist on keeping them though. I know one person who had a hen get frostbite so bad the legs fell off (!!!) And she was sitting on the Internet trying to decide whether or not to treat the legs as they were falling off the body because she could not bring herself to put her precious baby down. In the end the chicken made the choice for her suffering the whole way. It isn't fair to the animals to put them in a situation where you struggle to make a call for their welfare. Similarly, hoarding of animals is illegal for that reason... And an animal hoarder can have just six critters and be a hoarder if they struggle to care for them.

Once we take a life into our hands it is our responsibility to make it a good one and if we cant make an animals suffering less then we are not being tender hearted. We are being a coward. And if we then choose to just keep bringing in more animals via chicken math type things it stops being about the animals at all and becomes about satiating a desire for just another type of Thing.

I will not bring an animal into my yard and home if I am not willing to take full responsibility for the life, and the death of that animal. It is not about me not being tender hearted, like Bee points out sometimes, we are not brutish unfeeling hard hearted people. It is about being brave and doing what is right even if it makes you cry.

Edit; For example, a story most people know. Old Yeller. How many people on here would be too "tender hearted" to pull that trigger at the end? That is not OK in my mind. That movie was not about an evil puppy killing boy. It was about loving enough to do the right thing!

So yeah. I judge people who bring suffering into a life they are responsible for. And I dare anyone who has a life in their care to do what is right, not what makes them feel good. Maybe if people in general were held to those standards (or any standards, really) more often the world would be a better place.

 

[Lacy Blues]

#4~Unfertilized..another of LRs eggs and it's a puzzlement because I see that little gal getting bred constantly.

Bee, as your rooster is of a Cochin persuasion, he may have an over abundance of fluff around his nether region. If you were to either pluck or trim those feathers, he may have better success at fertilizing some eggs.

Also, depending on how much fluff your girls have, that could also be an issue.

 

[subhanalah]

I'm not saying you are being specifically offensive to me, I. Sorry if you felt my response was..anyway, seems we just have a misunderstanding via text. Just when I read your poat, it made me think of all these different scenarios that just didn't apply to what you said. I've read posts here about people being tender-hearted and asking for help in getting the culls processed. It's something we all have to deal with, and we all deal with it differently. That's all, I just didn't think you felt that way really, you were just upset about something and felt the need to vent it here. I totally understand that, it's your thread! But at the same time I feel we should make excuses for one another. That's all I'm trying to do, to show you that it isn't all bad, and perhaps you just don't see everything in every circumstance, so maybe that could help ease your frustrations with these specific instances.

 

[subhanalah]

Bee, I dont think you have to appologize.

Some people who are not fit to keep chickens insist on keeping them though. I know one person who had a hen get frostbite so bad the legs fell off (!!!) And she was sitting on the Internet trying to decide whether or not to treat the legs as they were falling off the body because she could not bring herself to put her precious baby down. In the end the chicken made the choice for her suffering the whole way. It isn't fair to the animals to put them in a situation where you struggle to make a call for their welfare. Similarly, hoarding of animals is illegal for that reason... And an animal hoarder can have just six critters and be a hoarder if they struggle to care for them.

Once we take a life into our hands it is our responsibility to make it a good one and if we cant make an animals suffering less then we are not being tender hearted. We are being a coward. And if we then choose to just keep bringing in more animals via chicken math type things it stops being about the animals at all and becomes about satiating a desire for just another type of Thing.

I will not bring an animal into my yard and home if I am not willing to take full responsibility for the life, and the death of that animal. It is not about me not being tender hearted, like Bee points out sometimes, we are not brutish unfeeling hard hearted people. It is about being brave and doing what is right even if it makes you cry.

So yeah. I judge people who bring suffering into a life they are responsible for. And I dare anyone who has a life in their care to do what is right, not what makes them feel good. Maybe if people in general were held to those standards (or any standards, really) more often the world would be a better place.

ETA: ^is how I typically feel about people spaying and neutering their pets. I think every animal lover has that ONE thing that strikes a nerve. It's just different for each one of us.
--end edit--
I understand this feeling all too well. You can only see so much bad, before you begin to no longer accept the benefit of the doubt from people. Many times, *you* are right, and it's a horrible situation for sure.
I spent all night last night watching amazing stories of animals doing miraculous things for people. That's what keeps me going, not dwelling on the negative. I do admit though, it is at times very hard to try to remain positive when it seems like every day it's like "seen it, advised against it yesterday and the day before...tired of this" then it becomes much easier for us to use a very broad brush when confronted with every situation.
It's hard not to lose faith, but you can't lose your faith! It's what drives us to do better for ourselves.

 

[Beekissed]

Bee, as your rooster is of a Cochin persuasion, he may have an over abundance of fluff around his nether region. If you were to either pluck or trim those feathers, he may have better success at fertilizing some eggs.

Also, depending on how much fluff your girls have, that could also be an issue.

You know, this FF or just the cold winter really produced some fluffy butts this season and I had thought of that too. Since it's not a real breeding program where the outcome is especially needed, I decided to not pluck butts. If I had a quality rooster and was hoping for offspring from him, I'd definitely be doing some clipping of feathers or plucking. I had read about where and how to do that on the Heritage thread...I must confess I've never plucked a vent for that reason. Or any reason. I kind of wanted to have chickens that didn't have to have butt pluckings in order to mate effectively....is anyone breeding for that?

If I do another clutch, I'll do some landscaping of the nether regions in order to facilitate a more successful hatch rate. This method certainly deserves a better try than I've been giving it. It's such a laid back, easy going method that it suits my style.

 

[subhanalah]

You know, this FF or just the cold winter really produced some fluffy butts this season and I had thought of that too.  Since it's not a real breeding program where the outcome is especially needed, I decided to not pluck butts.  If I had a quality rooster and was hoping for offspring from him, I'd definitely be doing some clipping of feathers or plucking. I had read about where and how to do that on the Heritage thread...I must confess I've never plucked a vent for that reason.  Or any reason.  I kind of wanted to have chickens that didn't have to have butt pluckings in order to mate effectively....is anyone breeding for that? 

If I do another clutch, I'll do some landscaping of the nether regions in order to facilitate a more successful hatch rate.  This method certainly deserves a better try than I've been giving it.  It's such a laid back, easy going method that it suits my style. 

Seems to be working so far...I think you are giving it exactly what it deserves!

 

[jakal92]

...I just couldn't see enough to make a determination and it looked like blood vessels had formed.  The others are very dark, one so dark I can't  hardly see any space.  I think I saw movement in a couple, but dark eggs and my eyes?  Not sure if I'm seeing things or not.

When I have a hard time trying to determine the state of a dark egg I put the candler under the egg so it lights up the bottom. It seem that the good eggs have some lighter area under the dark blob. If most of the egg is clear it probably stopped developing, and if it's all dark it's probably going rotten ( sometimes ready to explode.) If all of your eggs are set at the same time it's easier to determine what the good eggs should look like by comparison.