Simulated Natural Nest Incubation~Experiment #1 So it begins....

for me the problem of shipped eggs versus purchasing live birds (chicks or trio) resulted in a solution that I was not expecting, "Contentment".

The egg laid on my farm is "free", the eggs purchased and shipped is costly, so I can have a 35% hatch rate on my free eggs and still be very very happy.
 
My first kiddo was induced, one day after due date. My OB was rather induction happy, started suggesting it at 36 or 38 weeks (can't remember which).. after she suggested my son might be 11 lbs, I was like... OK, let's do this, I do NOT want a C-section.

He turned out to be 9 lbs even
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The induction was awful, but I made it through. I did not want an epidural, I'm sorry.. the thought of a big needle in my back and the idea of losing feeling in my legs sounded worse than anything nature could throw at me. I was right, it really wasn't *that* bad. But, I sadly was a hero on the floor that week
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Incredible how American woman are being made to fear childbirth... In Holland epidurals are pretty rare and home childbirth still common.

That said, if the ultrasound actually shows she's a whopper, I am not gonna let her stew too long
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I gained 3 lbs in the last week and she went from measuring 38 weeks to measuring 40 weeks, in one week time. I wanted to avoid induction at all cost, but I am not going to risk C-section or harm to the baby.. I've got my home remedies lined up through! 3rd trimester tea with raspberry leaf, been eating dates for weeks (supposed to make things smoother), got two big fresh pineapples ready to munch on, brewers yeast and ground flax seed for milk cookies.. pressure point chart.. walking and gardening a lot still and my husband can't wait for the other methods of natural induction (Men...). I really expected to have made some progress the last week, but no change in dilation.... figures.

If she's really not all that big, my happy self is going to wait it all out and be patient. I much prefer natural over intervention.


*phew* that was a much longer story than intended.

ANYHOO.

I did the math on our eggs, between the bedding and food and upkeep I spend $25 a month on 9 hens.. on average I get 7 eggs a day in summer, 4 eggs in winter. So eggs cost me $0.12-$0.20 a piece, which is a bargain for freerange antibiotic free eggs. A few pennies per egg for the cost of coop and run... and ofcourse they pay in fertilizer, and meat.. at some point. I think we're doing well
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My ex-husband fishes for crappy a lot, pretty decent eating, when fried up. He shares his haul every once in a while. I think occasionally he gets some bass or breem. It's all fish to me once it's fried
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When I lived in Holland we had an abundance of cheap fish.. Mmmm. Cod, herring, mackerel, trout, flounder, salmon... you name it.

Honey, take care of yourself. You'll know if anything is different and should be looked into. Big babies are good. Healthy. Praying for your safe delivery.
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You are not alone and I know how you feel...I candled some of my eggs last night and several of my most visual and active chicks died sometime yesterday and since I had candled the night before. I was heartbroken...AM heartbroken. No temp spikes of which I am aware, nothing was done wrong on my part that I can figure. They were all my WR eggs...there are only two of those left that still have chicks in them and I had to do a float to even find movement in the one, the other is still visual and I can see it move. Doesn't mean they will make it to the end, though. I also floated several of the BA eggs and some still show movement, but all in all I think I'll have half, or even less, of what I thought was going to hatch. I'll do a final float tonight and eliminate all the dead ones....I can't stand to even think of them lying there dead without removing them.

I don't know how you experienced hatchers do this over and over but I think I'm about done with incubating. This is just heartrending to wait all that time, track progress and watch them move and have your heart jump with joy inside you so that it brings a smile to your lips.....then check them again and they are dead. No explanation, nothing one can do to prevent it, being so careful on temps that I checked them many, many times a day and several times each night when I would awaken. All for nothing and all to watch healthy chicks die in the shell.

I may just be too fresh on the disappointment of it all, but right now I don't care if I ever incubate another chick at all. I've just never killed a baby life like that and I don't even know if we are supposed to be messing with trying to create a life outside natural ways of doing so, if this is the result. I've not had too many stellar broodies but at least they produce live chicks in the end and I've never found an egg at the end of a hatch with a dead chick inside of it.

Something is just not right here.

I'm leaving the nest for the day to go to town and for the first time I won't be leaving all anxious about something happening to the temps or the electric going out while I'm gone....there's really no point in getting worried about such things any longer. If they live, they live, if they die, they die because there simply isn't a thing I can do about it at all, is there?

All I get from incubation threads is "Don't touch, don't touch, don't touch"... maybe you handle them too much? Just guessing here, I have very little experience myself.. and it is undoubtably different when not working with your standard styrofoam incubator.

But you never know, they may not be dead. They may just be running out of room to move much.

I'd like to put my .02 in about assisted hatching. If I listened to the conventional hands off wisdom I would have hatched less then 10 chicks instead of well over 100. My incubator shrink wraps eggs bad, no matter what adjustments I make to water / heat. Every hatch I have had I have had to assist the vast majority (all but one or two each hatch that make it out on their own). Shrink wrapping is a 100% fatal condition the chick cannot hatch on their own no matter what. Shrink wrapping is a 100% non-genetic, 100% artificial hatching problem. In my first hatch I lost all but one, when I opened the eggs (after they all died in lock down) and saw all viable completely formed, internally and externally pipped shrink wrapped chicks, I decided next hatch wasn't going to be like that, what's the worst that could happen if I broke the sanctity of lockdown??? They'd "all die"???? Well guess what they all did in lock down so I didn't figure I could do any worse then near 100% fatal. My next hatched and every one since then I eagle eye watch the pip progress if it stalls for much over 8-12 hours I assume shrink wrap and go in and assist. Of the ones I assist that are alive when I assist I have only lost a handful (less then 10-15) This past hatch I would have only had 2 chicks of the 30 eggs if I had not assisted, instead I had 20, but one died at 3 days so I have 19. Of the ones I assisted this time only 3 died at hatch after assisting, one was in breech position and I couldn't find his beak in time, one was to weak from shrink wrapping, one was a tad too early (but already shrink wrapped).

Every person really has to decide for themselves what works. No situation is ever the same. Clearly, for you intervention is key and I am certain by now you're a pro on when and how to intervene! I think it's more a rule of thumb for new hatchers, folks who may help a chick too early and cause it's demise in the end because the chick wasn't ready to be born.

Yes, Lacy, that puts a whole new outlook on the idea of shipping hatching eggs. I never thought that it would impact the reputation of the breeder. Good to know. I had the opportunity to buy Lt Sussex fairly close to me but they were $175 shipped for 6 babies. I think I would do better to buy a trio. I've decided to go with White Rocks. A better fit for me. Have to be later down the road. I've spent too much money on coop, fencing, store house. etc.
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I love WR. As much as I would want to breed some crazy exotic or almost extinct heritage breed... I love my WR and they would probably be first on my breeding wishlist. Ofcourse, it remains wishing... can't do much breeding without a fellah. *sigh*


Although, I may keep one of my little fatties around (I've got some diluted cornish X WR looking things.... they're either scrawny X or fat WR
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). If I can convince them to be good little boys and not be loud, or house them indoors and let them out during the day... well, I would love to cross them with my WR ladies and make me some meaties. No showing, just eatin'. The idea of being able to raise a handful of these guys a couple of times during the year makes me happy... but, most wishful thinking, I fear.
 
Kassaundra: Excellent stats on assisted hatch. I agree that there is a time and a place for assisted hatch, and I won't hesitate to jump in, but the catch is knowing when the time is right to assist. I think with each hatch, we all get a bit wiser in knowing when and how best to assist. After reading those articles, I am in awe that it's even possible for a live chick to hatch out of an egg in the first place! I think my stats on last hatch would have been higher if I hadn't panicked about humidity at the end, and boosted it too high, creating an unsanitary environment for one of my assisted hatches, and perhaps too much humidity for the chicks who had yet to externally pip. I should have done more investigation on the 5 remaining eggs.


Bee: Incubating is definitely a learning experience. Hold off on that float test until they are past their due date. And I do understand your disappointment. Don't beat yourself up. (It's too early to do that anyways!) I know you take the creation of life very seriously. But, if you hadn't tried, how many chicks would you have hatched? I'm glad you have some quality WR to work on in your flock. If artificial incubation is too much of a disappointment, perhaps a good large butted broody will be in your future.


Tomtommom: Don't forget to add a large pot of baked beans to your natural induction arsenal. I'll be praying for a safe, speedy and easy delivery for you. I'll even go so far as to add that your delivery will be free of un-necessary medical intervention.
 
You are not alone and I know how you feel...I candled some of my eggs last night and several of my most visual and active chicks died sometime yesterday and since I had candled the night before. I was heartbroken...AM heartbroken. No temp spikes of which I am aware, nothing was done wrong on my part that I can figure. They were all my WR eggs...there are only two of those left that still have chicks in them and I had to do a float to even find movement in the one, the other is still visual and I can see it move. Doesn't mean they will make it to the end, though. I also floated several of the BA eggs and some still show movement, but all in all I think I'll have half, or even less, of what I thought was going to hatch. I'll do a final float tonight and eliminate all the dead ones....I can't stand to even think of them lying there dead without removing them.

I don't know how you experienced hatchers do this over and over but I think I'm about done with incubating. This is just heartrending to wait all that time, track progress and watch them move and have your heart jump with joy inside you so that it brings a smile to your lips.....then check them again and they are dead. No explanation, nothing one can do to prevent it, being so careful on temps that I checked them many, many times a day and several times each night when I would awaken. All for nothing and all to watch healthy chicks die in the shell.

I may just be too fresh on the disappointment of it all, but right now I don't care if I ever incubate another chick at all. I've just never killed a baby life like that and I don't even know if we are supposed to be messing with trying to create a life outside natural ways of doing so, if this is the result. I've not had too many stellar broodies but at least they produce live chicks in the end and I've never found an egg at the end of a hatch with a dead chick inside of it.

Something is just not right here.

I'm leaving the nest for the day to go to town and for the first time I won't be leaving all anxious about something happening to the temps or the electric going out while I'm gone....there's really no point in getting worried about such things any longer. If they live, they live, if they die, they die because there simply isn't a thing I can do about it at all, is there?

Hello Bee,

I think it's time to stop beating yourself up! I would not have float tested, this close to hatch date. ........wet egg...too much humidity. And definitely would not tonight or anytime until day 24.
I think you may be assuming they are dead. They may just be sleeping or as somebody else has said, the chick may be too big to be able to move very much, when you checked them.

I have on my phone calendar, tomorrow as being day 21 for you; is that right? Let's see what happens. I and many others are here for YOU!!!
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You are not alone and I know how you feel...I candled some of my eggs last night and several of my most visual and active chicks died sometime yesterday and since I had candled the night before. I was heartbroken...AM heartbroken. No temp spikes of which I am aware, nothing was done wrong on my part that I can figure. They were all my WR eggs...there are only two of those left that still have chicks in them and I had to do a float to even find movement in the one, the other is still visual and I can see it move. Doesn't mean they will make it to the end, though. I also floated several of the BA eggs and some still show movement, but all in all I think I'll have half, or even less, of what I thought was going to hatch. I'll do a final float tonight and eliminate all the dead ones....I can't stand to even think of them lying there dead without removing them.

I don't know how you experienced hatchers do this over and over but I think I'm about done with incubating. This is just heartrending to wait all that time, track progress and watch them move and have your heart jump with joy inside you so that it brings a smile to your lips.....then check them again and they are dead. No explanation, nothing one can do to prevent it, being so careful on temps that I checked them many, many times a day and several times each night when I would awaken. All for nothing and all to watch healthy chicks die in the shell.

I may just be too fresh on the disappointment of it all, but right now I don't care if I ever incubate another chick at all. I've just never killed a baby life like that and I don't even know if we are supposed to be messing with trying to create a life outside natural ways of doing so, if this is the result. I've not had too many stellar broodies but at least they produce live chicks in the end and I've never found an egg at the end of a hatch with a dead chick inside of it.

Something is just not right here.

I'm leaving the nest for the day to go to town and for the first time I won't be leaving all anxious about something happening to the temps or the electric going out while I'm gone....there's really no point in getting worried about such things any longer. If they live, they live, if they die, they die because there simply isn't a thing I can do about it at all, is there?
Bee, be patient. During my last hatch, a day or two before they were supposed to hatch, my dopey incubator spiked to 102 and I had no idea how long it was like that because it happened during the night. I did something drastic to try to minimize the loss and I don't know if I should have done it or not but I ran cold water over the eggs, just for a few seconds and then dried them off. When I candled again, the veins looked markedly different than they had the night before on my scheduled candling and I was pretty upset. Ronott1 told me that 102 would not kill my chicks so that helped my emotional state. The eggs had been put back in the incubator and I was watching them like a hawk. I was sure I would have a bad hatch. The veins just looked like they had been fried and I couldn't see the chicks moving at all. Maybe the 102 caused it and maybe its a normal process. I don't generally candle on day 19. Anyway, out of 16 eggs that batch, 14 of them hatched. I would have expected it to be those numbers perhaps but in the other direction.

I would suggest leaving those eggs in the nest. You might be surprised.

I'd like to put my .02 in about assisted hatching. If I listened to the conventional hands off wisdom I would have hatched less then 10 chicks instead of well over 100. My incubator shrink wraps eggs bad, no matter what adjustments I make to water / heat. Every hatch I have had I have had to assist the vast majority (all but one or two each hatch that make it out on their own). Shrink wrapping is a 100% fatal condition the chick cannot hatch on their own no matter what. Shrink wrapping is a 100% non-genetic, 100% artificial hatching problem. In my first hatch I lost all but one, when I opened the eggs (after they all died in lock down) and saw all viable completely formed, internally and externally pipped shrink wrapped chicks, I decided next hatch wasn't going to be like that, what's the worst that could happen if I broke the sanctity of lockdown??? They'd "all die"???? Well guess what they all did in lock down so I didn't figure I could do any worse then near 100% fatal. My next hatched and every one since then I eagle eye watch the pip progress if it stalls for much over 8-12 hours I assume shrink wrap and go in and assist. Of the ones I assist that are alive when I assist I have only lost a handful (less then 10-15) This past hatch I would have only had 2 chicks of the 30 eggs if I had not assisted, instead I had 20, but one died at 3 days so I have 19. Of the ones I assisted this time only 3 died at hatch after assisting, one was in breech position and I couldn't find his beak in time, one was to weak from shrink wrapping, one was a tad too early (but already shrink wrapped).
Kassaundra, I don't know if you have tried this or not but when your eggs appear to be shrink wrapping, you could take one of those half sheets of paper towel (you know the ones) and get it wet with warm water. Then wrap it around the egg but leave the air cell portion uncovered. I have started doing my hatching with the eggs in egg cartons that have the bottoms of the cups removed for air circulation. It was recommended to me that I don't wrap the egg completely so then what I would do is just wrap it around the center portion of the egg. I had 4 in a recent hatch that looked like they might be shrink wrapped (the same as the 102 hatch). I had pipped the top of the egg just to take a peek inside and I could see that they had pipped internally but I couldn't see much movement at all so I wrapped them up individually. I put them back in their carton and also put wet paper towels between and around all four of them together. All four of them hatched on their own without any further intervention from me.

Just a suggestion.
 
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hi Jules, I'm with "cowpoke" ,my calculation of day 21 was 16th,.?

i would not have worried about seeing any movement,chic has to position& rest , ready to internally pip not be jumping around developing.

that's why its called lockdown -candle day 18 ,mark expected pip position ,then leave alone, i thought we had agreed u would sit on yr hands & not mess with them.
I know it is the hardest thing to do when u r an anxious mum to be
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imo float testing is only to be used after day 23 if u r to impatient to wait til day 24 for late hatchers

given yr experiment is similar to a "still air " incubation i would not have expecting any external pips until late on day 21or early day 22

hopefully yr float test was in warm enough water ,so none infiltrated the egg

sorry if my comments appear harsh to u
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I'm sure everyone on here is praying for a good hatch & holding yr hand ,while we await the miracle of hatch

Pete
 
Floated all eggs this evening before reading your posts.....10 eggs without any movement. Removed them and cracked them. Eight fully formed dead chicks, two that just had mush and had stopped developing before any chick was showing up. These chicks were cold, stiff and dead, so assuming they've been dead for a bit. Only have 8 in the nest left that show movement. Will have to see if they survived the float test or anything else that may happen before hatching. At this point I don't really care. Totally defeated and have no excitement left in me right now.

Took pics...couldn't see anything at all wrong with these chicks. Perfectly formed, had all their parts, the yolks look good, etc.
 
Floated all eggs this evening before reading your posts.....10 eggs without any movement. Removed them and cracked them. Eight fully formed dead chicks, two that just had mush and had stopped developing before any chick was showing up. These chicks were cold, stiff and dead, so assuming they've been dead for a bit. Only have 8 in the nest left that show movement. Will have to see if they survived the float test or anything else that may happen before hatching. At this point I don't really care. Totally defeated and have no excitement left in me right now.

Took pics...couldn't see anything at all wrong with these chicks. Perfectly formed, had all their parts, the yolks look good, etc.

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Sorry you lost them, Bee.
 
hi Jules ,sorry u had some quitters, u still have 8 to go .

wish i was there to give u a big hug ,
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get some rest /sleep - tomorrow is a new day - u may get a surprise ,chicks can be surprisingly tough .
hoping to hear some better news tomorrow
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chin up - u have taken this experiment further than anyone initially thought u could achieve,don't forget "hootie" proved this can work

cheers Pete
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