Small Breeders VS Hatcheries

[Michael Apple]

Viruses of which there is no cure are the main concern since chickens can carry those diseases without showing symptoms. One is taking a chance with their birds whether they are bringing them to shows or raising them on range. Much more at risk in poultry shows in my opinion. Immunity is more likely on range since chicks are gradually introduced to the environment by those who know how to raise them. Not so at a show even with mature birds where it is a sudden exposure to a stressful environment and birds possibly carrying air-borne viruses. Chicks are rarely seen at shows for a reason; too likely to contract viruses due to an undeveloped immune system. Brooding pens are even safer, when managed properly, for a hen to raise her own chicks.

I have all sorts of wild and migratory birds around my property and have dealt with Marek's virus in the past. That is why chicks are vaccinated for it. Besides that, the wild birds do not pose a threat due to a properly fenced and covered yard. People who allow feeders to be gathering places for wild birds to crap in all day long invite problems. Out on range, wild birds such as quail, finches, jays, cardinals, woodpeckers, warblers, and canaries never prove to be a threat. Control of rodents by keeping feed picked up at night, storing feed securely, taking advantage of appropriate bait locations, following worming programs, proper coop and yard management should be routine to avoid problems.

If anyone is considering going to a show to buy birds, I would say don't based upon experience. If you know what you want, contact a reputable breeder who will be attending the show. Arrange to get birds that have not entered the show area. Of course, for the newer folks, if you have other birds at home, follow the standard of quarantine and close observation for new birds at least 30 days before allowing them in the vicinity of your other birds. You'll be glad you did if any of the new birds have something contagious.

 

[pawtraitart]

Breeder or hatchery....it depends on what is important to you. Hatcheries are in the business of VOLUME. The birds they sell may or may not be true to their breed visually. Most of the hatchery birds I've had in the past have been good egg layers. If egg quantity is your priority, a hatchery will provide a large selection of good egg layers to pick from. If you want a bird that is true to the standard for that breed, I'd go with a breeder who specializes in that breed. Ask the breeder a lot of questions to verify that they aren't just trying to make a quick buck. A good breeder, no matter the size of their operation, will be happy to discuss the progress, strengths, and weaknesses of their program. You can't get that kind of background information from a hatchery.

 

[gardenmuse]

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses! What I'm understanding as the upshot of this topic is that there are two main concerns to watch out for in buying stock: one is disease prevention (hatcheries) and birds bred for resistance to disease (breeders); and two is to look for breeders who breed for breed quality in the way of visual appearance and laying expectations(or meat or whatever is expected of that breed) there is really good info in this thread on those aspects of breeding.

I especially liked this post breaking it down further into 3 categories with the "Producers" defined.

However, no one really addressed one of my main concerns which is the humane treatment of both the breeding stock and the hatchlings. I understand the need to cull for quality, and to cull out unwanted roosters (which means up to 50%!!), and believe this can be done relatively humanely. What I'd like to see is a discussion of the hatcheries culling practices vs the smaller breeder and "production" breeder culling practices. As well as living conditions of the breeding stock.

My main agenda for backyard chicken keeping advocacy is to get us (people in general) away from factory farming and inhumane treatment of animals used for human purposes (food sources in this case)

Thank you again for all the quality info in this thread so far, and thanks in advance for giving thought to the humane aspect as well.

 

[Michael Apple]

With demand for chicken meat and eggs across the world, there will never be a shortage of people who will seek the lowest price and don't care about the quality of it. They buy from Foster Farms, Tyson, etc. Those companies exist solely to make profit through efficiency of production. The largest industrialized hatcheries supply them if they don't have their own supply. There is no regard for life, except concern for a human who may get sick and take them to court. The best way to get even is by boycotting/not buying their product. There are companies specializing in healthy birds raised on organic feeds with access to range. They should be supported the same as those producing humane and healthy egg production operations. Any animal regarded as food will be regarded as" less than". The human mind conditions itself to push aside emotions in regard to culling animals for food. The quickest way is the most humane way, and I've done it battling with my own pity for the animal. Where this is understandable to make the process easier, I find it troubling to know many businesses perform outright cruelty/neglect in their process.

Chicks in large, industrialized hatcheries bear a quick process of handling to shipment. I see why that is troubling, but like I said, efficiency is what meets supply and demand. The consumer should realize what they are demanding. With a nation that performed as many as 1.06 million human abortions such a short while ago in the year 2011, that says much about regard for life among the citizenry. With that acceptance of the majority, I think it would be quite a job to get the majority to enact legislation supportive of more humane treatment at hatcheries. I'm not being negative, just explaining my observations. Some states have taken great strides to enforce more humane treatment of livestock, and the biggest complainers are corporate executives who never did a day's work in the industry but reap all the benefits . I believe the biggest leverage against companies you disagree with is your own money. Not buying their product is the best way to rebel against their business practices. I say this considering not all hatcheries adhere to the same standards. The orchestrated global market/economy won't make it any easier to raise the standard. It must begin at the state level, which is why State's Rights are so important. We don't want to live like the Chinese.

 

[gardenmuse]

Michael, I agree with your idea of the best we can do as consumers is to boycott what we don't agree with- regardless of what it may be. That is the biggest reason to encourage our friends, neighbors and communities to localize food production, support local farmers over grocery imports from God knows where, and do what one can to grow food for ones own self and family. It's very empowering! While Monsanto and companies like it are striving to control the worlds food supply, the home grown food movement is consistently growing and gaining ground. Supporting and joining these movements will go a long way to having food independence for generations to come.

Thank you all for participating in this thread!

 

[Michael Apple]

Michael, I agree with your idea of the best we can do as consumers is to boycott what we don't agree with- regardless of what it may be. That is the biggest reason to encourage our friends, neighbors and communities to localize food production, support local farmers over grocery imports from God knows where, and do what one can to grow food for ones own self and family. It's very empowering! While Monsanto and companies like it are striving to control the worlds food supply, the home grown food movement is consistently growing and gaining ground. Supporting and joining these movements will go a long way to having food independence for generations to come.

Thank you all for participating in this thread!

Glad you agree. Right now there is a shortage of organic egg production. I curiously looked at prices in the store last night on the way home from work. Up to $9 a dozen for some brands. I'm sure glad I don't buy eggs. In regard to Monsanto, they are what is known as an international trade cartel to me. I find it troubling that people are dumb and complacent enough to allow an outfit responsible for design and manufacture of Agent Orange, to manufacture food.

 

[Hangtown Farms]

NPIP is really only about Pullorum typhoid and in some states avian influenza. Your state agricultural department would have more information. Some states have other oddities too, like Washington State, unless you have more than 30 birds you cannot be tested and therefore cannot be part of the NPIP program.

What you said about the diseases from wild birds and everything is very true. All that is a topic for another thread but unless you intend to keep your birds in a totally controlled environment that cannot be accessed by: wild birds of any type, rodents, flies and other insects and even worms can all be vectors of various diseases and ailments, then your birds will likely be exposed to various diseases and parasites. The best way to combat this is to breed for resistance or buy from those who do. This is one of the downsides of hatchery animals as well. Most hatchery breeding birds are raised in sterile environments and therefore do not have strong immune systems (due to their "line" never being exposed to anything).

completely agree on the wild bird front .
I am not NPIP yet does that mean I am irresponsible ? I am going back and forth if iI should. I do not buy vaccinated chicks as I prefer to maintain a resistant flock.
I do ship eggs. My plan was to become NPIP But then would I be able to import eggs? I am looking at doing a import in the next year.
is NPIP A way for the government to be more in your business ? I do not make any money when I ship my goal is to help spread the Penedesenca so basically I get what it costs me to pack them up properly and take 2 hours out of my day to take them to the post office.

I have heard about plenty of sick chicks arriving from Hatcheries though usually it is from less vigorous chicks and in regards to the quality hatcheries birds never really seem to look correct like you said. There is room for both though

 

[aoxa]

completely agree on the wild bird front .
I am not NPIP yet does that mean I am irresponsible ? I am going back and forth if iI should. I do not buy vaccinated chicks as I prefer to maintain a resistant flock.
I do ship eggs. My plan was to become NPIP But then would I be able to import eggs? I am looking at doing a import in the next year.
is NPIP A way for the government to be more in your business ? I do not make any money when I ship my goal is to help spread the Penedesenca so basically I get what it costs me to pack them up properly and take 2 hours out of my day to take them to the post office.

I have heard about plenty of sick chicks arriving from Hatcheries though usually it is from less vigorous chicks and in regards to the quality hatcheries birds never really seem to look correct like you said. There is room for both though

Message Delisha about NPIP she is an NPIP inspector. She has imported English Orpingtons. I'm sure she will help you out with your questions

NPIP is not applicable in Canada.