So if you are new vegie gardening...?

[bkreugar]

So for the last 5 years the kids have suggested a veggie garden and I have been ok on it as has DH, but just haven't made it happen. They said the same thing about chickens and 4 years ago I got those and now ADDICTED to chickens. Anyway so this year I am really trying to make it happen as the kids are eating more veggies and DS8 LOVES to plant flowers with me. Like more than me!

Anyway so I made the list we want to grow. I went to the local feed and seed store and got the name of someone to till for us...AND dh nixxed that and said he wanted to rent a tiller so he can make it as ig as he wants. I am not to thrilled with this as I was thinking 10' by 20" and he is thinking BIGGER and I am thinking I don't want to weed BIGGER. But I digress the dumb question is...

Which is better to till in as fertilizer, chicken poop or horse poop? and how "OLD" does poop need to be? We feed the horses roundbales so there is PLENTY of poop that is about 6 months old in the old spot we dropped hay in. Or the chicken poop which would also be about 6 months old and have straw in it? Which is "hotter" and how long does it generally take for it either/both to be used? TIA.


And yes I DID find a place I can rent a tiller for a day. I am SOOO not going to let him convince me to buy one no way!

 

[sune42]

Might I suggest raised beds, I think it makes weeding so much easier because it is pretty much nonexistent. As for the manure, I am not sure how long until it's composted, I have just bought thus far because I don't have a spot for a compost pile.

 

[silkiechicken]

I like chicken poop, but if I had horse poop I'd use it too. However, the down side of horse poop is weed seeds can live through the horse. Nothing survives a chicken gut as far as I can tell. Not even black berry seeds. LOL

 

[AllTheseCreatures]

I don't think it's a dumb question at all. I use is chicken manure with straw (till the pile is reduced by half and it's infested with earthworms) then I put in the garden in the fall, let is rest there all winter and turn it under in the spring. Many people love horse manure for their gardens (in fact it was all the french market growers used for their year-round gardens) so I think that would be fine too. You could go by your sense of smell. If the manure smells strong, fresh, poopy . . . it's still too fresh. It shouldn't have much of an offensive odor at all if it's ready for the garden. I would think that being 6 months old and a good tilling, you'd be fine with both. I say go with both!! You should add more organic material to your garden every year. Good soil takes time to build. The chicken manure may be "hotter" because it has more nitrogen in it (but not by much, 3% compared to 2% for horse).

BUT, because it's not well composted and you're adding straw, you may have a problem with weeds. A good sharp hoe makes quick work of a weed.

 

[HHandbasket]

I've used both at different times with equally positive results. I think the important thing is to just use clean, well-aged poo. I would think 6 months would be old enough if you turn it in the ground. The tell-tale is what it smells like. It should not have a "poopy" smell. When it breaks down enough to where it smells "warm and earthy", it's good to use in the garden. If it still smells like poo and is still breaking down, it can damage your seeds and/or seedlings because the ammonia's still high. Wait until the poo smell breaks down some more & all you have left is that warm, earthy "dirt" smell. I don't know how else to describe it, only that it should not smell like stool or urine at that point.

 

[ODS-n-ENS FARM]

If you go with horse manure make sure it was thoroughly composted and composted correctly.The compost needs to reach a certain temp for a period of time in order to kill th e coli.
Horse manure can also carry Giardia and sometimes Salmonella.
Garden grown vegis need to be washed as well as store bought.

 

[herfrds]

Great answers concerning the manure.

I would tell your DH that starting out small is better rather then jumping in big right away.
the raised beds are a good suggestion too. There is a book out there called Square Foot Gardening.
I tried it last year and it worked pretty well for me. Just something to look into.

 

[Kaceyx73]

OP,

Too bad you are in Asheboro, NC, because I spend much of my springs tilling gardens for other folks. You have gotten some really good suggestion, but if I may, let me take it beyond the next few notches.
I till small gardens, and a few over 50x50. I usually till, spread topsoil, potting mix, sometimes a mix with a little "fresh" mushroom compost. Just depends on what the soil looks like, and what the customer really plans on growing immediately. I then till in the amendments.

Now comes the really cool part.

Someone suggested raised beds. I concur. That is exactly what I do...with my tiller. Yeah, its an old Troy-Bilt, and I use the furrowing attachment to furrow deeply every 4-5 feet. I then take a rake and pull the dirt from the furrow up onto the "hill" and smooth it out. The furrow becomes the walkway, with a nice deep raised bed for planting. There are many advantages over traditional row gardening, and, with someone like me, its actually cheaper than trying to build raised beds out of various landscaping materials. In a 20 ft wide garden for example, instead of many rows and paths there are only 3 1ft wide paths. Most women can still reach the middle from either side, and instead of growing 1-2 rows of crops, many veggies can be planted in 4-5 rows within a 4ft bed. Obviously, cabbage, tomatoes, and melons require more space. It is much easier to water the beds individually, conserves water, conserves fertilizer (if used), and is most definitely space saving. The other big advantage lies in not walking or stepping in the bed at all. All the problems associated with soil compaction and over tilling disappear. In most cases, tilling would only be required in the beds themselves every other year or so, if properly amended. When adding in new amendments, it can usually be done with only a digging fork or spading fork and a rake to smooth it out.

As for your question about manures, if in doubt plant potatoes. Taters can handle the acidity, and it even helps ward off some of their pests and diseases. Each year, concentrate your compost to one primary bed. The following year, plant your potatoes in that bed. By the time your potatoes are out of the ground, the soil will be sure to have finished composting it if it wasn't finished yet. As for a difference, I'd use what you have first. I have just started with chickens last summer, but needed to amend my soil, so I found a horse stable to get some free manure. By next year, hopefully I will have plenty of my own compost.

For a simple 4 bed rotation:
Year 1 Potatoes
Year 2 Soil Builders like beans
Year 3 Root Crops
Year 4 Heavy Feeders like tomatoes, corn, squash, melons etc. when there done, add a good couple of inches of compost and let it rest until next year's potatoes. This kinda rotation keeps you from taking the same nutrients out of the soil year after year.

Ken

 

[kellerfarm]

I started my garded just a few years ago. I went with the raised garden approach based on the 'square foot gardening' principles.

Worked awesome. I started with 2 4x8 beds just 6 inches deep. Did the SFG mix of peat moss, composte, vermiculate (details on the SFG site).

I like the system becuase I have almost ZERO weeds to deal with. And since you never walk ON the soil, it is super easy just to pluck any little weed and it comes up roots and all with no effort.

Each year I just add my own compost - chicken manure, rabbit, goat, etc. The more variety the better. Don't just stick with chicken or horse - mix things up.

 

[Robo]

I have been using my garden spot as a compost pile and not all of it had completely composted. The quail manure has already composted as well as the chicken and rabbit, everything except for the brooder shavings. Will the pine shavings hurt anything?