Solar Power Stuffs - Questions and Answers

[Ascholten]

Thank you, Aaron.

Our goal with solar energy is to get off grid. Since I'm 60, we probably won't recoup the cost. The plan is self sufficiency. Power goes off? Oh, I hadn't noticed. It goes off at least twice a year, and sometimes for 3-4 days at a time.

We have to be able to run:

Fridge, well pump, freezer, lights, oven, computer(s). I bet DH would say room AC in the summer too. The furnace and water heater are propane, but electric something, because when the power's off, the furnace and water heater don't run. (Electric blower on the furnace; not sure what else.)

We also have an electric dryer and DH wants to get into welding. Both power hogs, I know.

We have a wood stove and use it a lot.

Our electric stove is about 43 years old. I'm debating replacing it with propane when it's beyond repair; natural is not an option out here. Our fridge is about 35 years old, and it doesn't owe us a thing.

I could adapt to "rationing" how I use electricity in exchange for being off grid.

I will get with you later on payback but think of this:
How much is it worth to NOT have to throw 600 dollars of meat away because the freezer is out for a week?
how much is it worth to have baby formula because your fridge is working?
how much is it worth to have HOT coffee to waft into the asshole neighbors apartment who bitched when you put a windmill on your truck during the hurricane... oh cough cough.. sorry, never mind .

Return on Investment is not always purely dollars clinking in your pocket. How much loss prevention will this give you. There's the convenience value too. When it's 85 degrees out with 95 percent humidity, that little fan running is an absolute LIFE SAVER.

Money solves a lot. I have a heat pump dryer. I also have a heat pump hot water heater. the WH takes 600 watts max load aprox. a regular one takes 4500 watts. That's 9 panels FEWER with just a heater change out. Welding you are on your own, but he could hook directly to the panels. Just to nerd out and prove a point to a hater, I used my 3000 watt 130 volt feed off my panels, to do a direct weld of sheet metal. Just to tell the little CSOB FY you POS little MF CCK it IS doable !! cough cough. ANYTHING is doable with the right mindset and mastery of the materials you have!

if you have propane then get a propane generator. many of them are dual fuel now, they use gasoline OR propane. can put out 7500 watts or so,depending on how big you use. In an emergency get one of those and run it off your propane.

Aaron

Edit: Let me add.
the generators that run propane as well. I find it's actually a bit cheaper than gas, runs a LOT cleaner. and propane you can store for 20 years. Gas gets gook in it that can clog carbureators and you have to put other stuff in it to keep it for more than a year or so or it can go bad. If you DO run the generator with both fuels, always remember to run the gas totally dry, this keeps things clean otherwise the gas side can get sticky, start gumming up and cause real issues.

 

[Nyhillbillies]

Thank you Aaron! We are blessed to have you here offering experience!!

 

[Ascholten]

Aaron,
How do you feel about wind power? Does it work just like solar? Can it work in tandem?

wind power is a whole different beast. there are VERY FEW places in the states where it's worth the effort to do it unless you want to just play around.
yes it can absolutely work in tandem with solar. Texas has a lot of prime real estate that does just that ! But wind . it needs to really be about 8 mph steady to even begin to give you anything, like 10 watts anything. If you want to pay 900 dollars for a generator that might make you a dollar a year electric IF the wind blows.....

You can look up wind zones, wind speed zones and it will give you an idea of what your average annual wind speeds are, which will tell you how worth it a wind generator may be.

https://www.usairnet.com/weather/maps/current/wind-speed/

not the best but a starting point.

aaron

 

[JacinLarkwell]

That's not possible unless you're only using the lights during the daytime. The solar panels only produce electricity when the sun is shining, so that energy has to be stored somewhere if you're going to use it later to power lights (or anything else) when there's not sunlight to produce a current in the panels. If the panels are wired directly to the lighting fixtures and you use those lights when the sun isn't shining then those fixtures have batteries (and charge controllers) built into them, which is the case with all of the all-in-one solar powered lights.

Hm, okay. I assumed that batteries meant extra power to run after the power from the sun shining was gone.

might be better off with a microphone, if it's screeching and screaming, it's probably the cat

Why would he be screeching or screaming?

 

[DParker75089]

Hm, okay. I assumed that batteries meant extra power to run after the power from the sun shining was gone.

Think about it this way:

The solar panels produce an electrical current, by converting solar energy into electrical current (hence their name) only while the sun is shining. If that electrical energy is not used immediately as it is being generated then it must either be stored for later use, or it is simply lost. Storage of energy (generally in the form of chemical energy, though there are exceptions) for later use is what batteries do. Ergo, any system that produces energy for use after the energy is no longer being generated must use batteries as an energy storage mechanism to bridge the gap in time between when that energy is generated and when it is used to do work.

In this case, the energy is generated during the day time, but will not be used (to power your lights) until it is dark outside, when the energy is no longer being produced. So you need to store that energy somewhere in between those two times, which means...one or more batteries.

 

[allenw]

Aaron,
How do you feel about wind power? Does it work just like solar? Can it work in tandem?

How many solar panels can you buy for what a wind system costs?

More panels will give you more collection area for lower light conditions, there will be some system capacity limits on this. The sun will shine, the wind might blow.

 

[Elyrian1]

My understanding is that wind is much more expensive for the same output, generally. My understanding is also that microhydro, if you've got running water, is the best way to go.

Anybody else know good comparisons between the types? We won't have running water, but we will have lots of sun.

 

[DParker75089]

BTW, there are some simple and inexpensive all-in-one solar powered LED + motion sensor units that give some fairly decent light. At least, more than enough to tell your cat from a racoon. I've had one mounted on an awning in my backyard for nearly a year now and it works great. The solar panel is connected to the light by a 5 m (16.4 ft) cable, so you can put the panel in the best location for sun exposure while putting the light up to 16 feet away. If you needed the light inside you could do that.

 

[Ascholten]

My understanding is that wind is much more expensive for the same output, generally. My understanding is also that microhydro, if you've got running water, is the best way to go.

Anybody else know good comparisons between the types? We won't have running water, but we will have lots of sun.

Microhydro, IF you have continuous running water. otherwise it's a total waste of time, and it also needs a LOT of maintenance. That running water carries a lot of trash with it too, that you'll need to filter out, and clean those filters etc. It will need lubrication occasionally etc.

Wind the same way, it needs some maintenance from time to time and if the wind is not blowing, no real power. Wind sounds nice but people don't realize and they do NOT tell you because they want to sell you that windmill, that you really can't use this thing in any reasonable way unless the wind is blowing 15 mph or more. They'll try to charm you with, oh but even 10 watts anhour it's running 24/ 7 ... well yes, but so is my fridge, so what's your point? 10 watts don't handle the fridge... unless you live in a pretty windy place, wind is not a good idea.

solar panels, the only real maintenance and yes it DOES make a fairly big difference, is keeping them clean. the pollen coats them, the birds roosting on them at night and writing their names in poop, harms their output etc etc Also over the first few years they WILL lose a significant part of their generation.

See thats another little thing that is not really told. like with batteries, oh it'll go 3000 charges and maintain 80 percent of it's capacity!!! you go, ohh.. well.. that doesn't sound bad.... but the question you need to ask is, is that loss linear, in other words, does it TAKE 3000 cycles to lose that capacity or will be batteries die off in say 500 cycles then just kind of hold there. When you look at gross thruput over their life cycle, that difference there is HUGE. Back to solar panels, they are guaranteed to maintain xx output for yy years... how fast do they get to that XX loss point?

Aaron

 

[Ascholten]

Another thing with micro hydro, you need head. If you are not getting a good head on it you won't make much power.

A river that run 700 feet and drops half a foot of elevation is kind of worthless, the money you'd spend trying to get power out of that half foot, unless you live on mars and that is the only water there period, NOT worth it.

Now if you got a creek that has a bit of a water fall on it and you can get the water to drop 15 feet, now THAT is a bit of power there, you have 15 feet worth of the weight of that water, now pushing on the turbine blade to spin the generator.

GPM flow is also critical, a 500 foot drop is not going to do much at all if all you get is 4 gpm out of it.

When dealing with water,again each setup is very unique.

Aaron

Edit: there are also biological concerns. ie you could temporarily plug up the water flow to back it up, then unleash it thru your generator, BUT if down stream there is an endangered kerfluffer fish living, you ain't touching a thing on that creek !!

How is your setup going to alter the natural water flow, if it does, that might become very significant. each setup needs a real hard look at.