Some info on acites.

[Chickery Chick]

If that is your picture I snagged, thank you for taking the time to share so others can understand what may be going on with their hen.

Looking back now over the past decade, I know that this was what I lost my hens to, but at the time I did not have a clue. One by one(never at the same) they'd get the same symptoms....waddling, lathargic, couldn't roost, then couldn't walk, then die, breaking my heart over and over and no answers. I've never had Merick's or cocci or any outbreak of any sicknesses, just this, and I hate to say "just" because this is more fatal with no cure. Just prior to me learning all of this and it's direct connection to poor breeding practices for longevity in these breeds, I had just purchase 12 more from the same Feed Store. I'm sick to think what is in store for them, and me. I wish now that I had not purchased them. I am going to attempt a lower protein diet for them and may ward it off longer.

I'd be interested in what breeds you have found that would be a better to avoid this. Also our big white Rooster that we were given, was a meat rooster, and suffered from too much weight on him, even with our best attempts to keep him lean, his legs finally gave out after a few years. We still miss him. So I don't want that problem either, due to genetic selection and breeding for meat.

 

[speckledhen]

Most folks have no idea what happened to their hens, unfortunately. We just opened them up in an attempt to learn from their losses. And we learned way more than we ever wanted to know about the sad genetics of hatchery hens. I've had better luck with my Brahmas, but then, they are not the most common hatchery backyard egg breed, either, so perhaps their genetics are better. In fact, my last remaining hatchery hen (not one of the originals, but one from the following year) is a Brahma. She will turn 7 in January, but she has not laid in a year and a half. No idea what's going on in her body, but she's a tough old gal and other than a sluggish, increasingly pendulous crop, she seems okay. I've never lost a Blue Orpington to this, not ever. All my stock came from breeders. Never lost an Ameraucana from it, either; again, breeder stock.


Start feeding yours flax seed on a regular basis. It's no guarantee, but there was one study that seemed to indicate that it may have minimal benefit in staving off this nasty malfunction. I don't know how much, how often, or any other details and my hens did get that from time to time. The best thing I did was quit buying hatchery laying hens. Their daughters have fared much better than their mothers, thankfully.

I don't think lower protein is the answer, but perhaps non-soy feed could help. It's expensive, certainly, but soy is something many folks want to avoid for their laying hens. Could result in hormone imbalance, not sure. Generally, there is no prevention and no cure, though. We can try to avoid soy and add flax seed, but other than that, just buy stock from sources who actually care about the health of their birds.

 

[rancher hicks]

Some folks disagree with me when I say that the folks who breed for appearance rather than type and utility are ruining chicken keeping. The past issue of Practical Poultry reiterates this again.

Chickens that don't lay well per annum nor have the weight for meat are pointless.

Hatcheries just want chicks, chicks and more chicks. Some hardly look like the breed they're claimed to be.

But hatcheries are NOT the only problem. Many notable breeders are adding to the problem.

I offer up my case as proof. I bid and won , some Swedish flower hens from a breeder in NC. Who by the way had brahmas too. I also was offered and took some Birchen Marans.

What I got were some chicks with crooked toes and only half survived to laying age. After all was done, I sold the Flower hens and kept 5 of the Birchens. My rooster has a crooked toe, but I was at a loss as to what to do.

My point? Be careful who you buy from. Hatcheries like some breeders are no more than the puppy mills of the chicken business.

I wish you well,

 

[Chickery Chick]

Thank you for you advice, both of you , on the careful selection of getting new chicks again.
I will look into Brahma or a cross. Like purchasing a new puppy, I will want see the parent's and establishment. I do not want to support a mass production of animals facility that has no regard for the life and care of their animals, let alone the consumer. I am not after appearance or show, just healthy.

While getting a lot of eggs is needed for poeple who sale eggs, I do not need that many eggs. Just a few a week just for myself. I do not eat my chickens so getting mass meat in a short time is not my objective. I want healthy pets and if an egg should come here and there that is a bonus.

I may sound like a nut wanting pets and eggs both, but I also do not want to watch an animal suffer that was bred predispositioned to do so. I have compassion for my animals, including my chickens. I base my feelings on this passage. "A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel." Proverbs 12:10. So I do question the ethics of this type of animal breeding with out warning consumers. There is a place for large meat producers and lots of eggs, so long as people are warned and are educated ahead of time to know that this will happen to these "types", what the signs are when it starts, and to cull them before they suffer and die. Like Speckledhen said, "Most folks do not know what happened to their hen." Just look at all the forums on this subject of desperate, hurting and confused people wanting help for their hen(s). This should not be happening.

 

[speckledhen]

I was using the hatchery Brahma as an example of one that did well for me in spite of being a hatchery bred hen, but I'm sure there are others that are less prone to the usual reproductive malfunction. I just didn't keep buying the hatchery chicks after what happened to the first bunch and subsequent hatchery purchases so don't have experience with too many other hatchery breeds. The worst for this seem to be the sex links and Wyandottes, though I never personally had one of the hatchery sex links.

I started with the usual feed store acquisitions from one of the biggest hatcheries, the Rhode Island Reds, Buff Orpingtons, Barred Rocks and Wyandottes. Later, I got other Wyandottes from same hatchery, sold two of my two year olds, but another year old also died from the same crud. One of my Buff Orp hens of the originals did live to 6 years old, though she had quit laying a year earlier, and died of what I would guess was cancer. I did not open her up, had done it so many times, just let it go, but she was what I consider elderly for a hatchery bird.

My breeder type Ameraucanas are 5 and 6 years old, still laying, though not all year long. My hatchery descended BR hens are still laying at going on 7 years, though very arthritic now. I have a 5 year old Buff Orp from a breeder, a RIR/Buff Orp cross hen out of exhibition stock who is also going on 7 years of age and kicking butt daily, though she has had two episodes I believe to be strokes within the last six weeks. She's back on her feet, but went through two full heavy molts within a year and didn't start back laying after the second one.

My 4 1/2 yr old Delaware hens are still laying, though one is currently in heavy molt and did quit for that. They are from heritage breeder stock. All this is to say that I've had much better luck staying with breeders I know; and I do mean good reputable breeders, not propagators of hatchery stock they bought and just started breeding-as Tim above said, they can be like puppy mills and care nothing for true quality or longevity any more than the hatcheries do.

Chickery, I wish you the best of luck. Right now, I'm breeding from my heritage Delaware male over my old line heritage barred Plymouth Rock hens and hopefully, what I've had to deal with in the past will be a very, very rare occurrence from here on out.

 

[rancher hicks]

A few points I think are valid.

1. Hybrids lay better, for the short term, then drop off dramatically. Heritage lay on average the same amount or more but over the long haul. This according to Practical Poultry magazine.

2. Many folks, breed from hens not yet proven with age. Ideally it is best to wait til hens are two or three to hatch their eggs. I've had hens purchased as chicks who did not live past two. I try to breed for hardiness. I've no time to baby sick chickens.

3. Many also, myself included, don't have time to cut open and research what went wrong and why a hen is fine one day and sick or dead the next. Besides what would I do? I can't cure cancer or fix internal egg laying. If I get a sick bird, I usually give them minimal treatment for a couple of weeks and then cull if there is no improvement. I'm working toward a hardiness.

4. Many folks don't realize some breeds are better layers than others though not the every day layers they believe. Weight and egg laying records are rarely kept. Ex. A breed with a record of 180 eggs per year only comes out to one egg every 2 days average. The books like to quote records but the Aussie that laid 355 was in a controlled situation.

5. There are "heritage" lines and " commercial" lines in the Leghorn, Barred Rocks and Rhode Island Reds. I'm sure there are others. Commercial lines are considered "terminal birds" They are not meant to be kept for many years. They're life expectancy is short. Usually are mainly for egg production.

Right now I could use some heavy and less egg laying birds. The fridge is full. My Dels are still the best layers, though my Marans are close second in winter laying. My CR's are the biggest and heaviest , followed by my BR's and Orps. None of which are as prolific in the laying department.

If you want birds for pets, heritage are the better choice. While not completely risk free still a better choice. Hybrids can be better too. My two EE's are still laying okay and are nearly 4. Also keep in mind that Delaware are a hybrid/composite breed. Some other heritage breeds are too.

BTW, Cynthia Uncle George is still doing okay. He is my main rooster , for my Delawares.

 

[speckledhen]

Quote: Glad he's still with you, Tim. Isaac produced some fine sons and daughters and is still doing so with my Stukel line hens.

Certain strains/lines lay better or longer than others, among the same breed, even among hatchery stock. Many folks only want their hens for two years and rotate them out. Obviously, Chickery Chick and I don't want to cull our hens after two years, preferring them to live out a good long life, realizing that they won't produce as heavily as time goes on. I'd much rather an older and recently laying hen look peaked one day and be dead the next, never having had symptoms of what I now recognize as internal laying or egg yolk peritonitis. That is what I would consider a natural death, even if she didn't make it to six or seven years of age. Some just die, which is fine, as long as they don't suffer a long, lingering illness.

 

[Bayford21]

Hatcheries are like puppy mills was an accurate statement , makes me sick. Most of my flock originated from hatcheries unfortunately. I will never cull mine production means very little to me, companionship is why I have them. I will probably just do rescues from here out. United poultry concerns is located right down the street from me.

 

[Chickery Chick]

Thank you for the insight on other possible breeds to avoid reproductive internal issues(acities/internal egg laying/Peritonitis http://backyardchickens.yuku.com/topic/6690), and too fast of growth for weight problems(only live 8 weeks at best and die of heart attacks and lameness). I'd like to get a hen/roo to live at least 7+ years. 2-3 years is just too short for me, and only 8 weeks is ridiculous!

 

[meganpemberton]

I have recently encountered this problem with two of my hens a BR and RR. I started taking notes from this site and other sources I found on the internet and come up with this in my research on ascities:

Ascites is when you see a chicken’s abdomen filling up with fluids due to usually liver failure but can also be from cancer or other organ failures and even infection from internal egg laying. No cure, just drain with syringe until their time is up. It is often associated with labored breathing due to lungs compressed from fluid pressure. In bad cases and near the end, the comb turns blue/purple due to lack of oxygen. Penicillin and draining will help with infection and breathing temporarily but this is just prolonging the inevitable. Most common in older hens of all breeds (layers and meat) 3-4 years of age.

One person noted a higher incident in extreme heat conditions. I also noticed this true. I’ve never seen a chicken get this during cool months or in the winter. It is always during extreme heat in the summer that it escalates. Suggestions for preventatives or prolonging would be an AC in the shed.

Also noticed that chickens who have suffered a wound or bumble foot developed this condition shortly there after in conjunction with extreme heat. They may have been predisposition to do so anyway and the wound triggered it sooner.

Ascites has been blamed on production facilities selective breeding “types” and/or manipulating early growth conditions via food or light that will produce high yield in meat or eggs at a quicker rate, meaning their hormones and growth rates are genetically engineered to “getting meat or eggs faster and more of.” This compromises the chicken’s longevity and organ functions (particularly reproductive organs for the egg layers). With these “types” early egg laying is impressive and meat chickens put on so much meat in a short span that often times they are crippled by mid-summer. Most people do not care as they are culled at that time and they are quite happy to have lots of meat to eat. Egg producers are happy cause they get there loads of eggs the 1st 2 years then they are culled and simple start over with new ones.

Pet people are the ones who are hurt and left with sick and dying chickens usually over 3 years of age.

Bottom line is today’s chickens at your local feed store are not meant to live over 2 years of age. If you want a pet, get a breed that is not selectively bred to produce meat or eggs and mature at abnormal rates.

BYC strikes again!! Such an amazing space!
I’ve been reading through questions and comments on the subject of the original post and came across yours. I honestly cannot express how much I appreciate this explanation and how comforting it is! I have a few older hens and some new ones. Recently I’ve lost a couple of the older ones and just baffled what I am doing wrong? What I could do differently? Am I not properly taking care of them even though I treat them like Kings & Queens? Ha ha They’re at least 3 years old. Even though you posted this some time ago, your answer/comment has helped me today! So thank you!