Sour crop problem. Hen is dying! please help! update- post #12

[oliviad51]

I have been trying to cure my BR hen for a week now. She has sour crop and she is on the elder side. She isn't laying eggs anymore.
I had another post on here about Sour Crop but I have ran into a problem and I figured it would be easier to start a new one.

I gave her JUST apple cider vinegar for 3 days. Then, I gave her plain, fat free yogurt for a few days. She would still throw it up.

So I decided to let her stay on the vinegar water for a couple more days without yogurt or food.
Today, I gave her a little more yogurt and a tiny piece of egg, and she threw that up, AGAIN!

I gave up and tried the 'vomit method' where I turn her upside down and massage her crop to make her vomit. Not only did she not vomit, but I couldn't even feel anything in her crop at all!

I don't know what to do because she keeps throwing up when I give her food but she won't throw up when I want her to!

Suggestions anyone??

Thanks in advance.

 

[oliviad51]

anyone?

 

[artsyrobin]

here is all the info i have- don't give up- the following was sent to me by threehorses- she has helped me with my hens on this- one thing i am thinking is alternate one day electrolytes, the next day acv- how old is she? when she eat anything at all she throws up? have you tried giving her a broth made with the feed she normally gets? it might give her a little nutrition if she can keep it down- how are her poops, and breathing?

I suggest withholding all food except lots of water with ACV (4 tbsp to a quart of water) to let the crop try and empty - the acv is antifungal, antibiotic and anti yeast agent and will help kill any organism causing the issues - no sugar, sugar (molasses) feeds the organisms. After 6 - 8 hours feed her some olive soak bread every couple hours and continue with lots of water with acv. Gently massage the crop without pushing upward (you could choke her). The oil makes things slippery and anything stuck can begin to move out. Make sure she is on bedding that cannot be ingested. They will eat anything trying to get relief for themselves. After 24 hours check her crop and gently without pushing up massage the crop to help things. Massive gross poops are good. If the crop is still sour and smelly and gassy you can give her 1/4 tsp mylanta plain flavored to help settle the acids.

Once the crop has empties don't be too quick to start feeding her again. Start off with the oil soaked bread, chicken pellets that have been wet and are mushy, a little yogurt and very finsly mashed boiled egg.

You have to give the crop a chance to heal and begin to function before you let her have a free diet. After 3 - 5 days slow begin to introduce her regular food and a little grit to help it along.

sour crop

Yes, it is sour crop. The food that is in there has dissolved into a toxic slush. If the crop is still full, you would want to cleanse it and then treat her with probiotics and give her organic apple cider vinegar water for two weeks if she's showing no other symptoms. You also will want to determine the cause of the problem in the first place and fix that.

Glenda Heywood has a good article on cleansing a crop. PM me if you'd like it.

You will want to do this as soon as possible because the liquid in that crop will grow bacteria and yeast and make your bird sick(er).

The probiotics are to replace the bacteria that have been damaged by the toxic contents and pH of the crop dribbling into the rest of her digestive tract. They will also help fight against whatever bad bacteria and yeast make it to that part of the system. The organic apple cider vinegar (1 ounce ACV to one gallon of water) will help correct the digestive tract pH, provide more good bacteria, break down the feedstuff that are in the crop waiting to go through, and also provide more digestive enzymes to break down solid particles in the digestive tract. The pH of ACV at this solution is that of a healthy digestive tract which is unfriendly to good bacteria. the pH of the crop (and thus the digestive tract) now is unfortunately friendly to bad bacteria, so we must change that.

If you see runniness of droppings after four days of treatment after the cleaned crop, let the board know. Let us know in any case, please.

By the way - no more solid foods until she's over this for two weeks. No grains, no grit, nothing but crumbles, probiotics (plain yogurt, acidophilis tablets, etc), maybe the bread if it's soaked in something useful - BUT - it's too friendly for yeast infections, sooooo maybe not. Boiled egg yolks are a good healthy treat and will help her gut. You can also mix the yogurt in a small amount of unsweetened applesauce. The pectin is small, helps clean out the digestive tract of sludge from this, the pH is like ACV (can be used with it), and chickens like the taste so it's a good way to hide probiotics.​

 

[oliviad51]

Thanks for the help. I am not exactly sure how old she is. I got her at an auction a couple years ago. At that time, she was laying eggs but she has not been laying for a few months.
Her poop looks ok I guess..Its slightly on the greenish color but other then that it looks fine. I will try everything mentioned. The only thing she has had is ACV, yogurt and a little bit of a scrambled egg. I gave her some yogurt earlier. She could have gotten a little down, but most of it was vomited back up. Same with the egg.

She seems to be breathing fine, except when she eats. You can tell she is trying to breathe while struggling to get the yogurt down. Its kind of hard to explain. You can see the food in the back of her mouth, but it just sits there while she tries to breathe out of her mouth. Then, she vomits. Thanks again

 

[artsyrobin]

if you put your ear to her chest do you hear her breathing? is it clear? another possibility because of the greenish poop might be botulism, but i'm not real sure on that- just that greenish poop can be a symptom- other than not being able to eat, is she acting normal?

 

[oliviad51]

I'm pretty sure she is breathing ok. I will check for sure tomorrow.

She is acting normal. In fact, as soon as I opened the 'coop' (and old rabbit hutch) she tried to jump out.

 

[artsyrobin]

been offline- and didn't want you to think i was ignoring you- how is she doing?

 

[ipana]

chickenlvr97

Just read your post. I've had a lot of experience with sour crop. If you can check the threads find a recent post from ipana, it has the whole schamoley about how to handle sour crop. math ace was the one whose chicken was having problems and I wrote a response to that. If you can't find it, PM me and I'll try to help. These birds can be saved but they can't go too long without nutrition. Hang in there. Let me know, OK?

 

[oliviad51]

ok, thanks. I will look at the recent posts about sour crop.

Update:
yesterday (Wed. Dec. 22) I made a scrambled egg and fed some to her. She got a little bit down. I stopped giving it to her once she had trouble swallowing. You can see it in the back of her throat, it just won't go down. Its almost like if you eat a lot of bread. When you swallow, you can feel it in your throat and its hard to get down. I think that's almost what it's like with her, except its harder for her to swallow.
She didn't throw up as much as she usually does, so that is a good sign.

I haven't been by Tractor Supply to get some electrolytes, but hopefully I can go get some tomorrow if they are open on Christmas eve.

BTW- Merry Christmas!

 

[ipana]

IMO, you need to get your bird to vomit in order to empty the crop. She can't get any more down perhaps because there's no more room. If her crop is huge, that would comfirm that nothing is passing through; also confirmed by no poop. In order to make her vomit, you have to hold her upside down and at the same time, prevent her head from lifting up. If she lifts her head while she is vomiting, she may aspirate some of the stuff into her lungs and that could kill her, so this is not just hanging the bird upside down. You must hold her head to keep it down and at the same time, massage the crop with the other hand. I would hold my hen's body kinda' under my arm and support her with one arm using the same hand on that arm to keep her head down. Then, I would massage her crop with the other. They don't struggle much with this. But be certain that you keep her head down.

After she has vomited and you have emptied the crop as much as possible, let her rest without food for at least 2-4 hours...no food, no water. Then, allow her some water but no food. Do you have a feeding tube? If not, it would help if you have one in order to get some soft, liquid food into her. She should not have any hard food for at least 2 days after getting her crop emptied. By morning, you should be able to feel that her crop is flat. If it is not, you will need to use a feeding tube to insert into her crop, inject 60 cc of water into her crop and then cause her to vomit so that you are flushing that crop. You may need to flush several times to get it all out. Try to observe what comes out...feathers, grass, nest bedding, whatever. That will be what you have to keep her away from in the future to prevent this happening again. After you get her flushed out, wait at least a couple of hours and then using that feeding tube, inject some diluted baby food . That give her food and water. Do that several times during the day. After a day of injecting the baby food, you can try to give her baby food with a little water to make it less thick and see if she will eat on her own. If she does, just give her the baby food and some applesauce for the day. Watch to see her poop. If she's pooping, something is getting through. Then, you can continue with the baby food, applesauce, and add a scrambled egg for the next day. If she is still doing OK, I recommend another day with only baby food, applesauce and scrambled egg. Then, if she is progressing, mix a small amount (1 tsp) of crumbles into the baby food to see if she can tolerate that. I would do that for another day, two days if you can. Then, progressively add more and more crumbles until you get her back to normal.

THis is a lot of stuff to think about. If it isn't making sense, please PM, email or contact me again. I would love to help you. If you want to discuss it by phone, I would be happy to do so. I can give you my phone number if you email me. Anyway you choose to do, please do something. These birds can't survive too long without nutrition.

ipana