sources of protein

[dlhunicorn]

I agree that there is a need to supplement (protein) the commercial mix (and this need will most likely be reduced when you find another source of protein >be that animal(meat) or insect source(such as I use) .... you can do this by switching to a different feed or supplementation... I think this is what is making the difference and not the soy...JMHO

 

[robin416]

Diana I have to respectfully disagree. The soy is the problem just by the fact it is not a meat protein but a plant protein. For some of us all that additional supplementation is more added to a daily "to do" list that is already much too long.

In one of my many passes across the TV one day I also caught a little blurb that it might not be "the be all to end all" for humans either. That its not providing all of the correct combinations of components for the human body. Unfortunately I was not around to hear the entire statement.

 

[dlhunicorn]

What is the brand(s) that you were unhappy with and the brand that you are now using? (I am curious as to the differences)
You are right in that I do not have near as many birds as some do and I luv the fact that I use their commercial mix simply as a "basic" starting point and therefore control exactly which other components are added (and the sources they come from) ... not all have the time or inclination or means to do so. The industry news have complained for years about the outdated NRC (minimum) recommendations that commercial mixes are based upon and the fact that the plethora of research since 1994 (the last update) has not been utilized through this down to the commercial feed industry necessitating supplementation to the commercial ready-made mixes in the industry also ...

 

[robin416]

I was using the Purina Flock Raiser, turned my birds yellow, feathering sucked, had issues in 100 plus temps. In this case the Purina was brought in once a week because it was a small mom&pop kind of deal.

At some point before I learned where to find all the different feed I was feeding co-op feed. Again didn't like the way the birds looked.

Nutreena, not happy with all of the fines in the bag which what drove me to the Purina.

Now I'm feeding Dumor, 20% protein. They've been on it since Feb or March. Amazing difference in the feathering. Zero issues in the extreme temps this summer. No yellowing like I had from Purina, except for the sun damage.

 

[dlhunicorn]

what was the protein percentage of the flock raiser (purina) then? I keep mine at around 20-23 % (estimate) also (but it must be said I use insect protein ...if I use a fish or meat based supplement I would not dare to have it that high and would keep it under 20 percent)... only older birds would need less after around three I think I read is when too much protein becomes an issue...
There has been a lot of research out lately about the two different types of Methionine that they have to use when supplementing plant based feeds... I will have to look into that more carefully...

 

[thndrdancr]

One thing that dhl might not know is that almost all (according to statistics) of the soy in the U.S. is now GM in some way.
Since Genetically Modified foods are banned in Europe (which should ALSO be done here), perhaps that is part of the problem. They are beginning to find lots of probs with the GM foods, yet we continue to plant and implement them in our food supply here, due to big business.

Jill

 

[dlhunicorn]

I will keep an eye out for any research on that too

 

[robin416]

I honostly don't remember the level of protein in the flock raiser, it might have been 20%. So I was correct in not using high protein levels, that is why I have never used the game bird feeds with their 24 to 26% protein levels.

The Dumor does have soy in it, its just not a sole source of protein.

Maybe that's what that thing was on the news the day I didn't get to see it all about genetic engineering. I know my husband saw something one night that the type of protein that soy provides has enzymes that are different than that protein from meat and could be causing difficiencies in humans. So, if its a problem for humans I can see where it would also be a problem for our meat consuming animals.

 

[2mnypets]

I feed the chicks Nutrena Nature Wise Chick starter feed. Here is what the ingredients state for it.

Guaranteed Analysis
(min. amounts except where noted)
Crude Protein 19%
Crude Fat 3%
Lysine 0.97%
Methionine 0.32%
Crude Fiber max. 5%
Calcium min. 1%- max. 1.2%
Phosphorus 0.7%
Salt min. 0.4%- max. 0.7%
Sodium min. 0.18%- max. 0.26%

Now we give the older pullets, cockrels, hens and roos the laying feed. Here are the ingredients for that.

Guaranteed Analysis
(min. amounts except where noted
Crude Protein 16%
Lysine 0.6%
Methionine 0.25%
Crude Fat 3%
Crude Fiber max. 6%
Calcium min. 3.55%- max. 4.05%
Phosphorus 0.6%
Salt min. 0.5%- max. 0.8%
Sodium min. 0.17%- max. 0.26%


Of course we supplement with yogurt, oatmeal, scratch (seasonal preference due to cracked corn), eggs, fresh fruits and veggies and whatever else we have but in moderation. I put raw unpasturized ACV in their water and they free range most of the day.

As far as the high protein in correlation with the kidneys, that is true. It is called Proteinuria and is a type of nephrotoxicity ( kidney damage caused by either toxins, drugs etc.) Proteinuria is an excess of protein in the blood. Protein is an important component in the blood, as it carries food, hormones, and many other things through the blood stream.
Once the blood is cleansed of excess wastes, the proteins will continue to flow through the body, carrying out their important functions. Protein is not filtered out of the body, as the large protein molecules are too big to through the tiny kidneys.

Here is a really good link that basically covers everything regarding protein in and for chickens. This covers mathmatical equations when determining protein %'s for your flock, different types of available protein etc. It does touch on the amino acids as well as soybeans. I found it interesting and informative.

http://www.lionsgrip.com/protein.html