Started on new non-gmo food!

[theFowlFamily]

more birdies eating NON-GMO http://thefowlfamily.com/chickens-guineas-and-grandmas-oh-my/

 

[sunnyllama]

Yeah, I was wondering about the price thing also. Not that I am not all for a really affordable organic feed, but I live in Ohio where Hiland Feeds is located and I know for a fact that organic grains are not available at that affordable of a price so that really worried me as well. I would just really like to know from whom they are sourced and a bit more from those who use it.

The only reason I brought up egg production is because I have read that soy feeds sometimes lack enough protein to keep up regular production.

Again, though, aside from Hiland what are some good soy free feeds?

 

[Spangled]

1. No one else in the country has (to my knowledge) been able to offer organic, non GMO feed at such a low price. Kind of makes you curious on how they do it and where they are buying the raw material and the quality of that material. It's not a few percent difference.....we are talking 50% cheaper than anyone else that offers this type of product!!!
2. Where are they getting their research on calcium in layer feed? I mean 5.5%; most other manufactures are at 2.5-4.5 and many backyard folks especially the breeders think even that 4.5 may be a little high.

$12.50 for layer is really cheap. It says that it's non-GMO, but on that price list it's not listed as "organic." Maybe they have a "non-GMO" feed and an "organic" feed, which is inherently 95% non-GMO by the rules of "organic." Non-GMO raw materials are easier to find and cheaper than "organic." But, yes, your Concern #2 is certainly valid.

5.5% for calcium? Really? I couldn't find a feed tag on their site that listed guaranteed analysis and ingredients. I guess the inclusion rate of calcium can be higher that 4.5% if they're using phosphous with high level of phytates. I prefer a 3.5% calcium level. Calcium is a cheaper ingredient than grain (for those that don't know).

I couldn't get the links to the word "organic" to work on their web site. I got 404 page not found.

I just found this on the Fowl Family blog:
"... new non-gmo feed being produced by Hiland Naturals in Ohio. They offered an affordable non-gmo feed that was organic without the steep price of it being “certified” organic." So yeah, the Fowl Family claim that the feed isn't certified organic which means that it can't be called organic no matter how perfectly it's grown. The ingredients would be cheaper since they won't be organic. I think it could be more difficult to verify their status, too, but then we're pretty much at everyone's mercy on that count anyway even with organic feed, especially that which comes from a far. Hiland Naturals does state that they do testing, though.

So that appears to be a reasonable source of non-GMO feed. But still I'd like to see the feed tag if I were ever going to use it. In fact, I wouldn't use it without the feed tag. That's just how it works. That's why the tag has to be affixed to the package.

Do you have a link to their feed tag?

 

[bairo]

I am awaiting their second email to me as they failed to answer my question in my 1st. I was very specific that I would like to see the nutritional analysis and a list of all formulas they offer. I will look in my history for the source of that calcium content and post a link

 

[bairo]

I found this from home sweet farms. I can not attach a document to this message so here is the link to download the .doc which looks like a scan of their layer feed.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...quSlAg&usg=AFQjCNGCud0e3FwacxjL-sgboZvChzBZxA

 

[bairo]

At any rate.. Judging by the tag and taking their word that they are certain that it is GMO free, I love everything about it....except the calcium. Even at 4% many people see calcium deposits on the eggs as well as eggs so tough that it makes hatching difficult. If they could get it to 3 % it might be one of the best formulas on the market (well, and give me 1 more percent protein)

I like that it seems that it is coated with probiotics (last couple lines in tag), I like the fat content (probably from the BOSS, I'm sure), like that I see flax, love that I see some animal protein to round out the amino profile.....I just don't get the reasoning on the calcium. Even if I thought it was ok for the hens, it would severely shorten the life of my primary rooster with probable kidney problems, bone spurs, etc.

 

[Nambroth]

Yeah, I was wondering about the price thing also. Not that I am not all for a really affordable organic feed, but I live in Ohio where Hiland Feeds is located and I know for a fact that organic grains are not available at that affordable of a price so that really worried me as well. I would just really like to know from whom they are sourced and a bit more from those who use it.

The only reason I brought up egg production is because I have read that soy feeds sometimes lack enough protein to keep up regular production.

Again, though, aside from Hiland what are some good soy free feeds?

I expect that is probably true for some soy free feeds. The protein content should, ideally, be made up with other high quality protein sources that are easily digestible by chickens. It does require some research into the brand/ingredients you are investing in.

I use Countryside Organics, after a lot of research and thought. A lot of people really like them. The cost is high because of shipping, if you don't have a distributor (I weep whenever I need to order it). It's not worth it for many people. It is for me, but I should leave the disclaimer that my chickens are pets and not livestock.

I forgot to mention, and this is anecdotal only of course, but the family friend that raises her hens on Purina products was flabbergasted when I told her how much feed I go though. My hens "seem" ( I cannot prove this without doing a controlled study!) to eat a lot less (and poop a lot less) to maintain a healthy weight, so my 50lb bag lasts about twice as long as hers does, when given to the same number of hens (of course feed consumption is variable depending on age/breed/time of year/etc). I suspect, but cannot prove, that soy overall is not as easily digested by chickens and that they pass a lot of it as 'filler'.

 

[theFowlFamily]

I'm also finding that we are going through a LOT less feed now that we are giving our birdies Hiland! I've been so pleased! For any questions about where they grow their grains etc...I would just give them a call! I had a feed tag sitting on my counter for about a week waiting for me to scan it but it got whisked away to the trash before it made it to my computer. I will try to scan another tag this evening!

 

[PDXcluck]

I expect that is probably true for some soy free feeds. The protein content should, ideally, be made up with other high quality protein sources that are easily digestible by chickens. It does require some research into the brand/ingredients you are investing in.

I use Countryside Organics, after a lot of research and thought. A lot of people really like them. The cost is high because of shipping, if you don't have a distributor (I weep whenever I need to order it). It's not worth it for many people. It is for me, but I should leave the disclaimer that my chickens are pets and not livestock.

I forgot to mention, and this is anecdotal only of course, but the family friend that raises her hens on Purina products was flabbergasted when I told her how much feed I go though. My hens "seem" ( I cannot prove this without doing a controlled study!) to eat a lot less (and poop a lot less) to maintain a healthy weight, so my 50lb bag lasts about twice as long as hers does, when given to the same number of hens (of course feed consumption is variable depending on age/breed/time of year/etc). I suspect, but cannot prove, that soy overall is not as easily digested by chickens and that they pass a lot of it as 'filler'.

I assume you and your friend both feed free choice?

I'm also finding that we are going through a LOT less feed now that we are giving our birdies Hiland! I've been so pleased! For any questions about where they grow their grains etc...I would just give them a call! I had a feed tag sitting on my counter for about a week waiting for me to scan it but it got whisked away to the trash before it made it to my computer. I will try to scan another tag this evening!

Same question as above, you fed both feeds free choice and noticed a substantial reduction in consumption?

This is very interesting as I was considering rationing feed, mainly to be sure I don't end up with a rodent problem, but also to limit over-eating. Though this sounds as if the chickens are quite capable of metering their own diet. And according to these observations, not just based upon quantity of food, but quality.

Thanks to you both for the observations. Glad the thread is back on topic, sorry to the original poster for my role in the slightly off-topic, slightly toxic, pro vs anti GM food debate. I swear I try so hard to bite my virtual tongue, but it has no nerves, so the bite has no "BITE"!

 

[Nambroth]

I assume you and your friend both feed free choice?

Yes, I do, and last I talked to her she did as well. I should mention that she also feeds them a lot of what I would politely call 'junk filler' (she goes and gets stale white bread that the local bakery is throwing away) and they still eat more formulated feed, according to her.

Again, hardly a scientific study, I should point out! The quality of my feed may be higher in other areas other than soy. I suspect so, but I do not know for fact. There are a lot of variables at play.

Edited to add: My feed is a 'mash' whereas I think hers is pelleted, but I am not sure. I never thought to ask before, so I will next time I see her, if that matters. I do notice that my hens pick through the mash and eat the parts they like the most, first, but eventually eat it all except the powdery 'fines'. I mix this with a bit of water (or oatmeal or kefir) and they eat it like it's candy once or twice a week.