Starting over with new hens?

[tcarter]

One can look at the measurements, but once with a bit of chicken math I was getting way too crowded, until a predator helped me out. A day later, I could just feel that there was a lot less tension in the coop. What seems like almost too much space when they are little, rapidly gets smaller when they grow. But the daylight also has a play in it, as in the early spring, my numbers bloom, but the chicks are small, the day is long, and the whole flock is out and about most of the day, every day. Come the fall, I HAVE to reduce my numbers, because as the day shortens, they spend more and more time on the roost in the coop. There are many days where they don't leave the run, and sometimes they are all huddled tightly together. They need enough protected space. You will get a sense of a happy flock, and you will recognize the tension before the feather picking starts the next time. Very seldom is it just bad chickens, most of the time it is space.

Mrs K

Thank you so much, Mrs K. I appreciate it! Thanks to all who helped! All the input has been useful. My 2 Buff Orps left this week. Then I went out late that night and sneaked in the two Speckled Sussex back into the hen house (after being separated for a few weeks to grow back feathers). There were no fights the next morning when they woke up together. So far, I do not see an unhappy flock. The less number and adjustment in the light seems to help. It takes a couple weeks for the new order to be established. My Columbian Wyandotte appears to be the leader now, and poor Freckles (my sweetest Sussex) is back on the low end. They are not mean to her, though....not yet anyway. I will know for sure later. I miss my beautiful Buffs, but they went to a really nice home. Super nice people, too! I expect they will do well there with such a drastic change. I've had 4 eggs two days in a row out of 5 hens! Gosh, that's about what I had with 7 hens on average. So, that means they are happy, too! Originally I thought maybe I just got a bad batch of temperament from Ideal Poultry (which I sure did not want to believe) or made a mistake mixing breeds. After talking to others I think it is very likely a numbers problem. The pecking didn't start until the original nine hens started laying (getting bigger!) and they hated their feed. As I changed from Purina Layena to a really great old fashioned 19% layer, and removed 2 hens, it was a step in the right direction. But the feather picking continued. After separating 2 more hens it improved more. Now that the light is changed I expect it will improve even more. This is all good so far. Thank you all so much! I'll keep trying. Hey, the hanging cabbage I've been using is still their favorite, too. Been doing that since the fall. Very inexpensive ($.42 cents/lb) and tasty boredom breaker!

No, there really isn't room to add another roost bar. There are two 6 foot bars already. I could expand the hen house, though. My coop builder is a genius and could figure it out for me if I choose to expand. Well, I ordered new Sussex chicks for next March before being on the forum. I have a feeling I know what you all are going to tell me! Cancel my order!

 

[21hens-incharge]

Well, I ordered new Sussex chicks for next March before being on the forum. I have a feeling I know what you all are going to tell me! Cancel my order!

Not me I suffer like many from chicken math.
Your set up is nice and you have room to add on if you choose to.
I am glad they are doing well.

 

[Mrs. K]

oh no, don't cancel your order, spring is coming and chicks are small!

But you will have to look things over, and decide who stays and who goes.

Some people just keep the same birds, for years, but for a lot of us it is not a specific bird, it is the flock. Flocks are constantly changing, new ones added, others leave.

In my opinion, the best flock is a multigenerational flock all together, chicks, pullets, older hens and a rooster. That is what I have now, and it is the best.

Mrs K

 

[tcarter]

oh no, don't cancel your order, spring is coming and chicks are small!

But you will have to look things over, and decide who stays and who goes.

Some people just keep the same birds, for years, but for a lot of us it is not a specific bird, it is the flock. Flocks are constantly changing, new ones added, others leave.

In my opinion, the best flock is a multigenerational flock all together, chicks, pullets, older hens and a rooster. That is what I have now, and it is the best.

Mrs K

Update. Although I don't see fighting among my remaining 5 hens, two hens that had lost feathers before are now losing them again. One of my hens follows these two around and the minute they are busy doing something she pulls and eats their feathers. This same feather picking hen doesn't appear to like her food, perhaps. She is shoveling it all on the ground by the handfuls looking for one thing in it she likes, I think. That's just how it appears. This is really good organic 19% feed the other hens really like. She guards the food and pecks at two of the hens that come near. She is making the other hens raw near there hocks and on their chests. This is no longer a crowding or light problem, as I resolved that. I wonder if this hen learned this behavior from the other hens that left and now is going to be stuck with it until I cull her? If she stopped liking the feed that would sure make her grumpy. Any thoughts? I am unsure what to do next.

 

[pdirt]

Quote:
I don't think I ever saw your dimensions. How big is your coop (width, length and height) and how big is your run (width & length)? Pictures would be a bonus.

If you were crowded, but no longer are, your aggressive hen could have developed a bad habit. What did you do to resolve the room issue other than getting rid of two hens?

Assuming you really don't still have a crowding issue, I would put her in a separate coop for a while, if you have one. If you don't have one, you can put her in dog crate and make her a separate run (or portion off the one you have) so she can exercise without needing to interact directly with the other birds. Plus give her her own food and water. At least this will give your picked hens a break and perhaps when you reintegrate the problem hen, she will have unlearned her habit.

I think there are things you can try first like this before needing to cull.

 

[21hens-incharge]

Can you try isolating her in a small pen or dog crate for a few days to a week? This should mess up the pecking order and place her closer to the bottom for a little while. I have heard that it helps break the kind of issues you are having.

 

[tcarter]

I don't think I ever saw your dimensions. How big is your coop (width, length and height) and how big is your run (width & length)? Pictures would be a bonus.

If you were crowded, but no longer are, your aggressive hen could have developed a bad habit. What did you do to resolve the room issue other than getting rid of two hens?

Assuming you really don't still have a crowding issue, I would put her in a separate coop for a while, if you have one. If you don't have one, you can put her in dog crate and make her a separate run (or portion off the one you have) so she can exercise without needing to interact directly with the other birds. Plus give her her own food and water. At least this will give your picked hens a break and perhaps when you reintegrate the problem hen, she will have unlearned her habit.

I think there are things you can try first like this before needing to cull.

Hen house is 4'x6' and it is joined under one roof to two runs, 6'x16' and 8'x12'. There are photos previously posted on this thread of my set up. I can post a photo again if they are not there anymore. I started with 9 chicks in Feb. I raised them to maturity. A few started pecking really badly in August when they were laying and stopped liking the Purina Layena. Changing feed helped, but pecking continued to the point of blood and complete loss of rear feathers on two chickens. I gave away the two most aggressive hens. That brought me to 7 hens. One hen still had a bare rear end, and all but one had signs of pecking. Although the aggression was reduced, the hen with the bare rear could not grow feathers because the other hens kept plucking the new growth. Finally I separated that hen and put her in my homemade chicken hospital in my horse barn. I gave her a friend, another hen that had lost a lot of feather tips. Those two grew back a lot of feathers. However, two other hens in the five that did not get separated seemed to still pick feathers and feather tips off the hens. Only one hen in the bunch was untouched. I found a new home for two more hens that kept plucking and eating feathers. At the same time I was transitioning the two hens from the chicken hospital back into the flock. This worked well. It was suggested by many that my numbers were too high for the size of hen house. It was also suggested that I should not leave my hen house light on too late on the timer, so I adjusted that. Now I'm down to 5 hens. These are all my favorite hens (two rare breeds). Yet, now I see another hen stalking and plucking feathers from the lowest hens again. If I continue to remove hens that are plucking feathers, I suppose it will help. However, it just seems like a behavior they all learned back in August when the worst aggression occurred. I am unsure if any of them will stop. Mainly, it is the saddle area on each hen that is affected. However, the lowest hens are getting hit on their necks, chest and rear as well. I see so many people with lots of hens and no feather damage. Mine ALL have feather damage. So, something is wrong.

I'm trying to do all the right things. I buy the best feed, have a big pretty new coop set up (very expensive), an outside play yard beyond the coop, offer treats (fresh veggies) several times a week, and I even built a lovely chicken hospital when I had to. I have more than one feeder, more than one type of waterer, free choice oyster shell feeder, and a hand built swing. I have really tried hard. Maybe there is still something I have missed. I sure don't know what it is.

My hens are laying eggs well, and the eggs are fantastic. They don't have a problem laying.

 

[tcarter]

I don't think I ever saw your dimensions. How big is your coop (width, length and height) and how big is your run (width & length)? Pictures would be a bonus.

If you were crowded, but no longer are, your aggressive hen could have developed a bad habit. What did you do to resolve the room issue other than getting rid of two hens?

Assuming you really don't still have a crowding issue, I would put her in a separate coop for a while, if you have one. If you don't have one, you can put her in dog crate and make her a separate run (or portion off the one you have) so she can exercise without needing to interact directly with the other birds. Plus give her her own food and water. At least this will give your picked hens a break and perhaps when you reintegrate the problem hen, she will have unlearned her habit.

I think there are things you can try first like this before needing to cull.

Here are my remaining hens

 

[tcarter]

Can you try isolating her in a small pen or dog crate for a few days to a week? This should mess up the pecking order and place her closer to the bottom for a little while. I have heard that it helps break the kind of issues you are having.

I could try isolating her. I'm not sure if it would stop the feather eating, but it might change the hierarchy. One lady I talked to said to take all the roost bars down for about a week. That changes the pecking order. I haven't tried that yet. I have to do things slowly, one at a time to see what works. I don't want to induce too much stress too fast.

Here is the inside of my hen house when it was new. It is 4'x6' and has 2 roosting bars 6' long.

My coop set up

 

[pdirt]

Quote:
Ah, yes, I do remember seeing your photos before. Beautiful setup.

When you had 9 chickens, that meant you had about 2.5 square feet per bird in your 6x4 coop. If your coop was prefab, the mfr will tell you that is plenty of space. Seasoned chicken owners say it's more like 4 square feet per bird, minimum. Then you had 7 birds, that's still only 3.4 sq feet per bird. It sounds like, yes, your birds were originally overcrowded and that developed the feather picking. Combined with the bad habit brought on due to overcrowding (even if in such a lovely coop!) plus the fact they were still overcrowded (by seasoned chicken owner's standards), that may have helped some, but the bad habit had already been learned. Now that you're up to nearly 5 sq feet per bird, yes the space shouldn't be an issue anymore, but perhaps the picking habit is more deeply ingrained now. Perhaps try to rehab them in some way, like isolating the worst offenders for a while. Since it sounds ALL the birds have developed the habit, you might need to rotate each of the birds into your chicken hospital, one at a time...not sure if that will work, but worth a try.

Not sure if this has been covered before or not. You say you feed good feed...what's the protein content? Picture of a feed label might help. If you're feeding a 16% layer, plus veggies (which are very low protein in general) several times a week, they may not be getting enough protein. If so, stop feeding the veggies for a while and instead, feed them some no-salt canned fish or some ground beef. Feathers are about 80% protein and one cause of feather picking is low protein...they eat the feathers to get more protein.

If low protein has been an issue, it's very possible the low protein combined with the tight quarters was a good recipe for feather picking...so the cause may not have been just one thing.

I'd say keep trying to remedy. If all else fails, you could start anew with 5 new birds (or even 6) and more likely, that bad habit won't develop.