Stinky pullet with snotty nose

[ediem]

I finally heard back from Lancaster fancy fowl that two of the four pullets I was waiting on (and already filed a claim with PayPal against) were ready. I really needed two more birds to help the first two I have to overwinter, so Against better judgement we drove the 1.5 hours and picked up a blue copper marans and an Easter egger and re-paid in cash.
The auto shop we picked them up in is smoke filled since the owner smokes at his counter, so there was no way of detecting a smell.
On the way home we noticed a strange odor, but figured it was due to having strange birds. The breeder told us that to incorporate these two with my other two, I should wait until dark when the other two go to roost and place these two on the roost next to them. They'll have all night to adjust to each other calmly and all will be good. That's what we did.
This morning the smell on these two new pullets was very strong and the marans had snot stuck to her beak which the Easter egger kept picking at.
I have separated them but I fear it's too late.
We have no avian vets in the area and our (dog)vet said they don't treat exotic animals.
They don't have signs of lice or mites, they're eating ok although not drinking much. Their poop seems ok, and they're 'foraging' in the pen I enclosed them in.
I am new to all of this and don't know what to do.

 

[ediem]

Can anyone offer suggestions? The smell is very strong, reminds me of a bad sinus infection kind of smell... Or when one of the children at the preschool I worked in had a seriously advanced ear infection. I don't know how to describe it other than wet soil that a dog peed in. Can you tell I'm new to all of this.

Hope someone has some advice soon, or I may have a breakdown.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I finally heard back from Lancaster fancy fowl that two of the four pullets I was waiting on (and already filed a claim with PayPal against) were ready. I really needed two more birds to help the first two I have to overwinter, so Against better judgement we drove the 1.5 hours and picked up a blue copper marans and an Easter egger and re-paid in cash.
The auto shop we picked them up in is smoke filled since the owner smokes at his counter, so there was no way of detecting a smell.
On the way home we noticed a strange odor, but figured it was due to having strange birds. The breeder told us that to incorporate these two with my other two, I should wait until dark when the other two go to roost and place these two on the roost next to them. They'll have all night to adjust to each other calmly and all will be good. That's what we did.
This morning the smell on these two new pullets was very strong and the marans had snot stuck to her beak which the Easter egger kept picking at.
I have separated them but I fear it's too late.
We have no avian vets in the area and our (dog)vet said they don't treat exotic animals.
They don't have signs of lice or mites, they're eating ok although not drinking much. Their poop seems ok, and they're 'foraging' in the pen I enclosed them in.
I am new to all of this and don't know what to do. Can you post photos?

It sounds like they have Infectious Coryza.

Treatment is Sulmet or Sulfadimethoxine along with Tylan 50. They will be carriers for life. Coryza is infectious, most like your existing flock has been exposed. Treatment may help with any infections they may have and help their symptoms go away, but even when they are "healthy looking" they can still pass the disease to other birds. The only way to know for sure what you are dealing with is to have one tested or a necropsy performed.

I'm sorry you are having to deal with this. You were misinformed about just adding new birds to your flock. New birds should be quarantined for at least 3weeks, so you can monitor them for any health problems, parasites, etc., then you would start your integration.

If they came from a hatchery you may want to contact them to see if they have had any problems, if not make them aware that you are having problems.

http://www.thepoultrysite.com/diseaseinfo/82/infectious-coryza/
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps044

You can contact your local agriculture extension agent about poultry necropsy or find info and state labs here:
http://www.metzerfarms.com/PoultryLabs.cfm
http://www.usaha.org/Portals/6/StateAnimalHealthOfficials.pdf

 

[ediem]

Wyorp, you were very helpful when I got my first two as day old chicks and I had no idea what I was doing (11 weeks ago), they had a cecal poo and I thought the sky was falling!!

Thank you for once again helping out. I've been trying to contact Lancaster Fancy Fowl and the owner is not responding, as usual. I've had issues since day one so its my own fault for listening to him.
Here are photos. I'm afraid you may be right, after doing a ton of reading and research all signs point to coryza. I'm so very sad since my first two were impeccably healthy and happy. They are the sweetest birds and hooked me for life.
I guess I need to find some antibiotics and treat all four. I just put ACV in their water and fed them some fermented chick feed. They ate well but the Marans won't drink. They are exhausted.

Can you post photos?

It sounds like they have Infectious Coryza.

Treatment is Sulmet or Sulfadimethoxine along with Tylan 50. They will be carriers for life. Coryza is infectious, most like your existing flock has been exposed. Treatment may help with any infections they may have and help their symptoms go away, but even when they are "healthy looking" they can still pass the disease to other birds. The only way to know for sure what you are dealing with is to have one tested or a necropsy performed.

I'm sorry you are having to deal with this. You were misinformed about just adding new birds to your flock. New birds should be quarantined for at least 3weeks, so you can monitor them for any health problems, parasites, etc., then you would start your integration.

If they came from a hatchery you may want to contact them to see if they  have had any problems, if not make them aware that you are having problems.

http://www.thepoultrysite.com/diseaseinfo/82/infectious-coryza/
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps044

You can contact your local agriculture extension agent about poultry necropsy or find info and state labs here:
http://www.metzerfarms.com/PoultryLabs.cfm
http://www.usaha.org/Portals/6/StateAnimalHealthOfficials.pdf

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Wyorp, you were very helpful when I got my first two as day old chicks and I had no idea what I was doing (11 weeks ago), they had a cecal poo and I thought the sky was falling!!

Thank you for once again helping out. I've been trying to contact Lancaster Fancy Fowl and the owner is not responding, as usual. I've had issues since day one so its my own fault for listening to him.
Here are photos. I'm afraid you may be right, after doing a ton of reading and research all signs point to coryza. I'm so very sad since my first two were impeccably healthy and happy. They are the sweetest birds and hooked me for life.
I guess I need to find some antibiotics and treat all four. I just put ACV in their water and fed them some fermented chick feed. They ate well but the Marans won't drink. They are exhausted.

Your very kind

I'm so sorry.

They may be able to recover with treatment and some people do keep birds that have infectious respiratory illnesses, but they keep what is called a "closed flock" or "all in/all out". This means you don't sell or give away any chicks, chickens, hatching eggs, etc. If you practice this, then any new birds in the future will most likely get sick so you will have to treat them and of course they will in turn become carriers - so the cycle continues. Others cull all birds, clean, disinfect, wait for about 30days and then start over. You will want to try to research to see what is best for you.

They will need to stay hydrated. If they will eat, try giving some wet feed. If they still won't drink, then you may need to tube fluids into them.
@casportpony has a great thread called "Go Team Tube Feeding" it is an ongoing thread, where she will help you tube fluids and feed into sick birds.She is very good with instructions and treatments as well.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/805728/go-team-tube-feeding

 

[ediem]

Thanks, I checked out all of your links. I had started them on ACV in the water and a fermented chick feed. The EE ate and drank but the Marans would only eat. A couple of hours ago she started to drink, voraciously. And I noticed the big blobby gook on her beak was off. She looks so much better and the smell has subsided. Their smell is still a bit off but not gagging quality. My other two have no smell at all.
They are eating and drinking and behaving normal but I'm still a bit concerned. The LFF owner got back to me and wants to pick them up and have them checked by a vet to make sure their stock is secure. I thought that was very responsible!
Here's a photo as they are now... Messy because of the wet feed but happy.

...

Your very kind I'm so sorry.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Thanks, I checked out all of your links. I had started them on ACV in the water and a fermented chick feed. The EE ate and drank but the Marans would only eat. A couple of hours ago she started to drink, voraciously. And I noticed the big blobby gook on her beak was off. She looks so much better and the smell has subsided. Their smell is still a bit off but not gagging quality. My other two have no smell at all.
They are eating and drinking and behaving normal but I'm still a bit concerned. The LFF owner got back to me and wants to pick them up and have them checked by a vet to make sure their stock is secure. I thought that was very responsible!
Here's a photo as they are now... Messy because of the wet feed but happy.


Quote:
Glad to see they are eating.

Yes, I think it may be a good idea that the breeder take responsibility for the birds and have them checked out.
Keep an eye on your existing flock since they were exposed. Watch for any signs of illness. Hopefully everything will work out for you.

Please keep us updated on anything you find out.

 

[ediem]

Just a quick update. My two seem to be fine. I'll continue to keep an eye on them but they're clean and dry and no odor. The other two were taken by the breeder and he texted me today that they're doing well. I have no idea if they went to a vet for tests or just treated and watched them themselves.
If they are 'healthy' again and they never went to a vet, is it safe to assume it wasn't coryza? Or should they be tested before they sell them?

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Re-selling a bird that has had symptoms of a contagious respiratory illness is IMHO unethical. It is one thing for an individual to unknowingly sell/give away a chicken that may be a carrier of an infectious disease, but the breeder or hatchery should know better. To be honest the breeder should have called you and let you know there was a problem and delayed your purchase/acquiring the birds instead of going ahead and letting you pick them up. With the mucous and foul smell, they would have known something was off.

I would not assume the breeder/hatchery took the birds to a vet. Most likely are watching/treating themselves. While you can achieve "symptom free" birds with antibiotic treatment, they will not be "cured". Most respiratory illnesses make birds carriers for life and the virus can be shed throughout their lifetime even if they appear healthy and show no signs of illness.

Some people do keep "closed flocks" with birds that have contagious illnesses, they know there is a possibility that any new birds brought in could possibly become ill and/or die. They also know that any new birds exposed may never show any signs of illness, but in turn will most likely become carrier of the virus as well and pass it on - a never ending cycle. These are individuals who never plan to sell/give away chicks, adult chickens or hatching eggs and are fine living with what they have. Others cull whole flocks and start over depending on what illness they are dealing with.

That said, unless there has been diagnostics/necropsy confirming what illness the birds have there is no way to know for sure or not whether it is Coryza or something else.

Make sense?

 

[ediem]

Makes total sense.
So his reply when I called a week ago was that the chicks were doing very well and he believes it was just that his wife squeezed them too hard when she clipped their wings and squeezed the contents of their crop up through their nose. But he was glad he took them back because the marans was actually a roo and he had another he could substitute. That was Friday and he said to call him Monday to plan to pick them up because he was being inspected for npip and would have the inspectors look over the birds one more time. I called and texted Monday thru Friday, as did my husband, with no answer. This evening he called my husband and left a message that they are ready to be picked up. I have already taken steps to purchase birds elsewhere. At this point I feel I can't rely on them and I'm not sure I feel I can trust his judgement of these birds. If he took them to a vet and I had proof they were healthy it may be a different story but there has been too many excuses and too many issues to deal with them anymore. I noticed on the other thread (beware of LFF) the police are now involved. I wish them luck. I sincerely hope they can pull it together and make this work for their families sake. Getting and keeping chickens shouldn't be this stressful!

Re-selling a bird that has had symptoms of a contagious respiratory illness is IMHO unethical.  It is one thing for an individual to unknowingly sell/give away a chicken that may be a carrier of an infectious disease, but the breeder or hatchery should know better. To be honest the breeder should have called you and let you know there was a problem and delayed your purchase/acquiring the birds instead of going ahead and letting you pick them up.  With the mucous and foul smell, they would have known something was off.

I would not assume the breeder/hatchery took the birds to a vet. Most likely are watching/treating themselves. While you can achieve "symptom free" birds with antibiotic treatment, they will not be "cured". Most respiratory illnesses make birds carriers for life and the virus can be shed throughout their lifetime even if they appear healthy and show no signs of illness. 

Some people do keep "closed flocks" with birds that have contagious illnesses, they know there is a possibility that any new birds brought in could possibly become ill and/or die. They also know that any new birds exposed may never show any signs of illness, but in turn will most likely become carrier of the virus as well and pass it on - a never ending cycle. These are individuals who never plan to sell/give away chicks, adult chickens or hatching eggs and are fine living with what they have.  Others cull whole flocks and start over depending on what illness they are dealing with.

That said, unless there has been diagnostics/necropsy confirming what illness the birds have there is no way to know for sure or not whether it is Coryza or something else.

Make sense?