strange birth defect in puppy

[mother o' chicks72]

When the breeder was asked about it, she wasn't at all surprised. She said she's had all kinds of "weird" kittens born there, including an entire litter born without FACES.

kittens born without FACES? I don't understand what could even possibly cause that. As for the OP, I'd like to hear what happened with the puppy.

 

[Redyre Rotties]

Just a comment with regard to inbreeding.

In breeding causes less variety in the genes so that there is a greater possibility of genes linking together or doubling up on each other. This applies to all the genes, both good and bad and indifferent.

Inbreeding is only advisable if one is familiar with the pedigree, in particular the animals who are being doubled up on. In the hands of a wise and intrepid breeder, the animals displaying the desireable traits can be kept and used, and they should be dominant for these traits. The animals who do not display the desirable traits can be culled either by not breeding them, or, in some instances with some traits, euthanized.

It IS a good tool. Properly used it can clean a line of many things that are not wanted, but it is not for the faint of heart, or those who are not very familiar with the animals behind what they are using.

I saw something similar with kittens once. I worked in a pet store that sold puppies and kittens (bleh). They sent me to see a woman who bred Persians who wanted to supply us with kittens. Her home was the worst kind of animal hoarding situation. 70 cats all locked up in one room. No litter boxes, food just dumped by the bag on the floor once a day, nasty.

I reported back to my boss that I wouldn't take kittens from her if she paid me, but my boss thought the price was just too good, ethics be ******! So the next day, there were 2 Sickly looking persian kittens in the store. I ended up having to talk my boss into taking them into a vet, because they were *very* sickly. Skin and bones, hair falling out, barely moving sickly (my boss was a bit of an idiot). Turns out niether had a eureathral opening. They had anuses, and some of the urine was somehow able to leak out that way, but not enough to keep it from causing serious damage.

When the breeder was asked about it, she wasn't at all surprised. She said she's had all kinds of "weird" kittens born there, including an entire litter born without FACES.

These kinds of defects are frequently (not always) the result of improper inbreeding practices. Inbreeding in and of itself is a valuable tool, but it must be done properly. If done correctly, it can bring out the very best genes in an animal, if done carelessly, it will bring out the very worst. Doesn't mean the two animals that produced the malformed offspring are neccesarily brother/sister mother/son etc, but one or both parent animals may be the result of poor breeding practices by others (including, but deffinately not limited to potential inbreeding).

Point being, most likely the cause is genetic, in one or both parent animals. They really shouldn't ever be bred again, together or seperate, and their surviving offspring should never be bred either. Even animals who do not show any signs of genetic defects themselves still may be carrying the genes that allow for them, (especially if close relatives are aflicted) and will pass those genes on to their offspring.

If it were just one pup in the litter with an issue, it could possibly be a fluke. A random genetic mutation, injury to the embryo, etc. But with so many of the litter being affected in such a bizarre variety of ways...(extra vertabrae?) that's a pretty clear indicator of a genetic issue...either that or massive radiation.

 

[EweSheep]

x2

Just a comment with regard to inbreeding.

In breeding causes less variety in the genes so that there is a greater possibility of genes linking together or doubling up on each other. This applies to all the genes, both good and bad and indifferent.

Inbreeding is only advisable if one is familiar with the pedigree, in particular the animals who are being doubled up on. In the hands of a wise and intrepid breeder, the animals displaying the desireable traits can be kept and used, and they should be dominant for these traits. The animals who do not display the desirable traits can be culled either by not breeding them, or, in some instances with some traits, euthanized.

It IS a good tool. Properly used it can clean a line of many things that are not wanted, but it is not for the faint of heart, or those who are not very familiar with the animals behind what they are using.

 

[TinaK]

Would love to hear back from the OP (jenjscott) about what happened with the pup? It is horrible how it always is the prettiest one..... the one with the nicest markings! Luckily it was only the one pup from the litter... and not a whole bunch!

Minniechickmama - I agree with most of the posters in saying that the mum should never be bred again. There is every chance that SHE is the one carrying genes that will lead to problems in future litters. It really wouldn't be worth the risk (and heart ache) to me. I’m very sorry that this happened to you.

Out of all the litters of pups I have bred we have never had a congenital deformity. Even though it is heartbreaking I agree that every pup born should be checked straight up for abnormalities such as cleft palate and any showing signs of deformity should be humanely euthanized at the earliest opportunity - for the better of the breed.

I also agree that inbreeding is a valuable tool for developing a breed... but it needs to be carefully managed and undertaken only by those who understand genetics. Some pretty horrible things can begin to occur if inbreeding gets out of control (like cats with no faces and r4ecurring instances of animals born with extra limbs, extra tails and missing bits).

 

[jenjscott]

Sorry to be so long in checking in, wasn't expecting so much interest. The pup was put down, the other 4 are all doing well with no sign of any problems. Unfortunately, this was not a planned pregnancy, the dog was a rescue and supposedly couldn't get pregnant. (two heats with breeding with no results) I wanted to have her spayed, DH didn't and it was his dog, and I didn't want a divorce, so no spay.. Non typical story, she is full blooded irish terrier, her owner went off the deep end and his father came and took him home to Bulgaria, so papers are out of the question. I think I can convince DH to let me have her spayed now.

 

[Gatorpit]

Oooh...Irish terrier? Cool beans! I had no idea. The pup looks like a dachshund mix with the merleing.

I would *love* to see pics of mom. I love Irish terriers!

 

[Gatorpit]

Oh and, OP...most of us were strongly advising the owner of the poodles that had multiple deformities in a single litter not to breed again, as she mentioned wanting to try with a different male, not singling you out on that. But...it's likely good advice to follow for the same reasons. Even though there is the potential (with only one deformed pup) that it may have been a fluke, (whereas multiple deformities in one litter is a pretty clear sign there's something genetic going on) it's still best to avoid the risk of potentially bringing more genetically damaged pups into a world already overflowing with unwanted, perfectly healthy pups anyway.

 

[watchdogps]

Sorry to be so long in checking in, wasn't expecting so much interest. The pup was put down, the other 4 are all doing well with no sign of any problems. Unfortunately, this was not a planned pregnancy, the dog was a rescue and supposedly couldn't get pregnant. (two heats with breeding with no results) I wanted to have her spayed, DH didn't and it was his dog, and I didn't want a divorce, so no spay.. Non typical story, she is full blooded irish terrier, her owner went off the deep end and his father came and took him home to Bulgaria, so papers are out of the question. I think I can convince DH to let me have her spayed now.

ok, so...confused..is this pup supposedly a purebred irish terrier, or was it a mix? Cuz irish terriers do not come in merle...

 

[jenjscott]

The pup was a mix. The mom is purebred Irish terrier.

 

[Gatorpit]

just out of curiosity...what was the father?