Supplimenting Breeder Silkie feed

[Debbie292d]

For well over a year, we have been supplementing our silkie feed (Kalmbach's Flock Maker) with an under-1/4 dose of Rooster Booster and 10.6g of CS/B (Chinese Skullcap Baicalin), plus 1/4 cup Kaytee Exact + Fat to provide the CS/B it needs. The ducks get this, too, and chicks get it with no Rooster Booster, as it causes diarrhea in them. This is for a 50# bag, and we go through about 50# per week.

I recently revisited what nutrients/minerals my silkies were getting. I became concerned with vitamin overdosing. The Rooster Booster pellets, even at 1/4 dose (their dose is 1 canister/50#), I probably should cut down on, or just do it every other 50# batch. The one that concerned me the most was Vitamin A.

If I cut down/eliminate the Rooster Booster, then I'm cutting down on the vitamin E as well. The nutritional analysis of Kalmbach's FM is 20 30 IU of E. That's too low for breeders, so I purchased powdered E and am going to supplement that to raise the E to 40 IU per bag (25 mg). That's still a safe level for the chicks and ducks, so this could still feed them all. Nothing indicates the selenium level in the feed, but it's in there, so, being cautious, I'll add 1,100 mcg of selenium, which raises the selenium level by 0.05 ppm. (5.5 - 6 capsules of this.) (A small amt of selenium is needed to aid in Vitamin E absorption, but selenium is toxic to them at 40 ppm.)

The end result should be:

Vitamin E: 30 40 IU/lb

Selenium: 0.25 ppm

These are well within safe limits and would be fine for the occasional 1/4 dose of Rooster Booster to be added.

These are both minuscule amounts, so they'll be mixed with the CS/B and Kaytee, then mixed into the feed.

Silkies can tend to have neurological issues, and I have 3/50 with them right now. The two newer ones with it got 400 IU of E for a week w/ scrambled eggs. I just want to up what they're all getting daily, as it also might help.

We need to mix feed today, so I'm posting this first to see if anyone has suggestions or questions.

Edit: Changed the E in Kalmbachs to 30 IU as I was misled to believe it was 20 IU.

 

[SourRoses]

Interesting!
Sorry you're still dealing with neurological problems

Have you looked into Fertrells Nutri Balancer? Supposedly, it's the top choice among the show crowd.

My last trip to TSC, I was so excited to finally find this in a bigger bag! ($1 /lb)

It does only have 10 IU vit E. I like that it has the fish meal though (potentially better Omega 3 profile).

ETA: I think this is the right label for Nutri Balancer, they have several products...

 

[thecatumbrella]

Did Flock Maker drop the vitamin E recently? I'm almost positive it was 30 IU/lb last I checked. That was one of the reasons we went with it.

Actually did a deep dive last year when we had neurological issues (a Silkie chick included). I spoke to a local Silkie breeder who offered everyone Rooster Booster in the water every 3 days. This obviously could be a big pain if you have multiple waterers/breeding pens/etc. I was also concerned about vitamin overdose, though she clearly hadn't been seeing an issue.

I ended up just spiking their snacks. No idea if you even feed snacks, or I understand if you really just want them to get everything met through their daily feed. But my flock got a weekly "neuro booster" of sunflower seeds (high in vitamin E) laced with nutritional yeast (for B vitamins) and a tiny drizzle of vitamin E oil to bind everything together. My understanding is that the fat content in the sunflower seeds is also beneficial for absorption. Calculated about a 1/2 tablespoon of seeds per bantam. Seemed to help nip any minor neurological tics in the bud.

I'll be following along since you clearly have a much better idea of what you're doing! I would love to get Silkies again in the future, but feeding them is such a challenge.

 

[Debbie292d]

Interesting!
Sorry you're still dealing with neurological problems

Have you looked into Fertrells Nutri Balancer? Supposedly, it's the top choice among the show crowd.

My last trip to TSC, I was so excited to finally find this in a bigger bag! ($1 /lb)
View attachment 4283345

It does only have 10 IU vit E. I like that it has the fish meal though (potentially better Omega 3 profile).
View attachment 4283349


ETA: I think this is the right label for Nutri Balancer, they have several products...
View attachment 4283354

Thank you for your suggestions. The Nutrena Starter I had highly considered just for the chicks. The E is too low, but that's easily rectified.

The Fertrell I had looked at, and the A levels are actually at the toxic level, so why I shied away from it. Their E is way high too, then all that added calcium, so the roosters are getting way too much.

I looked at many products to see if I could just buy for all of these chicks, chickens, breeders, roosters, and ducks.

 

[Debbie292d]

Did Flock Maker drop the vitamin E recently? I'm almost positive it was 30 IU/lb last I checked. That was one of the reasons we went with it.

Actually did a deep dive last year when we had neurological issues (a Silkie chick included). I spoke to a local Silkie breeder who offered everyone Rooster Booster in the water every 3 days. This obviously could be a big pain if you have multiple waterers/breeding pens/etc. I was also concerned about vitamin overdose, though she clearly hadn't been seeing an issue.

I ended up just spiking their snacks. No idea if you even feed snacks, or I understand if you really just want them to get everything met through their daily feed. But my flock got a weekly "neuro booster" of sunflower seeds (high in vitamin E) laced with nutritional yeast (for B vitamins) and a tiny drizzle of vitamin E oil to bind everything together. My understanding is that the fat content in the sunflower seeds is also beneficial for absorption. Calculated about a 1/2 tablespoon of seeds per bantam. Seemed to help nip any minor neurological tics in the bud.

I'll be following along since you clearly have a much better idea of what you're doing! I would love to get Silkies again in the future, but feeding them is such a challenge.

You're right about Kalmbach's being 30 IU. I had apparently an old nutritional panel when I was doing all of this math. I had a site even say that online it'll tell you 30 IU, but it's not. Well, it does say that right on the bag too, so it's 30. So that means I'll just stick with what I said to increase it by 10 and not consider doing 20. I edited my post above.

Sunflower seeds alone contain a good amount of Vitamin E, and selenium, and all the free-rangers get plenty of those under the bird feeders as that's all we put in them. It's not that I mind doing a boosted "treat" of sorts, I'm just trying to simplify things. For instance, this last week, hubby had to take care of the chickens. I just want him to feed the feed, and keep the waterers with water, and not have to futz with who gets what.

Their scratch is Henhouse Reserve, so I could spike that with something for those in the breeder pens. They get outdoors in their pens, but don't get the sunflower seeds the others do. That is doable. Let me ponder that one!

 

[SourRoses]

The Fertrell I had looked at, and the A levels are actually at the toxic level, so why I shied away from it. Their E is way high too, then all that added calcium, so the roosters are getting way too much.

Do you mean you calculated the dose based on their recommend inclusion rate of the supplement?

I had always wanted to try their supplement "someday" since it sounds very easy to mix a certain amount of pellets into a bag of feed. But if the properly dosed nutritional values are off then I wouldn't!

 

[Debbie292d]

Do you mean you calculated the dose based on their recommend inclusion rate of the supplement?

I had always wanted to try their supplement "someday" since it sounds very easy to mix a certain amount of pellets into a bag of feed. But if the properly dosed nutritional values are off then I wouldn't!

I'm just going by their per-pound measurement added to what they get already. I've got to scale down how much would be added by using E as an example and see what I'd get for everything else. Here we go again though with me and math.

I used AI to figure out that I'd need 5 1/3 oz of Fertrell to raise the E to 40 IU, and don't add my selenium as it's already got enough, and it's still safe. It's cautioning me though that this perhaps should be an occasional additive:
"You’re also adding calcium, phosphorus, salt, methionine, etc.
Not ideal if used frequently with a complete commercial feed"

I think the bottom line, though, is it's adding calcium, which is one of the reasons we're on Kalmbach's Flock Maker, so the chicks and roosters could have it. This would then be a special feed for the breeder coop, and I could do that, but then it sounds like I'd have to rotate it and not use it consistently. The young pullets in the growout pens won't get this either, and I want them all to get the additional E.

I'm really open to trying to find a product that works instead of me just adding E and selenium, but this way, every bird here can have it.

I think this could work for you though if chicks and roosters aren't a concern.