surgery today- Ruthie is gone.

[AndreaS]

Thanks for the responses, TeamChaos- I love your Avatar by the way, we could probably put the same thing on the side of our barn

We've always thought that if we ever did make our agricultural "hobbies" into a living we would call ourselves "Just Maybe Farm..."

I noticed this afternoon that little Ruth has a smell about her...it's not the normal chick smell. It's a little on the sweet/putrid side. Not good news.

I think I'm just going to bite the bullet and mix up some Duramycin-10. It's supposed to treat E.Coli, which is one of the bacterias that they attribute Omphalitis to. I'm not certain that this is what I'm dealing with....but if no one else has a better idea...I know these things can take a turn for the worse so quickly. I have never used antibiotics on my flock without knowing exactly what I am treating, but I don't want to risk it.

I guess now I just need to figure up the dosage for a chick.

 

[AndreaS]

Okay...so we just got home from 3 hours of Ruth riding nestled -you know where- in my camisole back and forth to a vet appointment. She's such a little trooper- she was a little annoyed, but handled it well. The avian vet we went to see was awesome, and we found out what the problem is. Poor little girl has a hernia!

I don't know why that never occur ed to me. Her little chick skin is so thin that when the vet wetted her bump down with some alcohol, you could actually see the intestines under the skin.

So, here's what the vet had to say. A small hernia can be an emergency, because the skin (pouch area) can cut off circulation to the protruding intestines. The main thing to look for is that she is eating and pooping. As long as poop is coming out, it's not life threatening.

Here is where it gets complicated. With a rooster it might not be a big deal, but with a hen- if she strains a lot with egg laying it can be made worse. Also, she said with a large hernia like Ruth's, there is some concern over the skin getting pierced by sharp objects on the ground.

They offer surgery for this problem, but financially that will most likely not be an option. She also said that another option would be to make Ruth into a "house chicken", use diapers, etc, so they she is kept in a safe environment where there will not be such a risk of her piercing the skin. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure my husband, dogs and cats would not be too keen on that idea. I brought up a third option; what about fashioning some sort of hernia belt to help hold it in tightly? She seemed to think that was worth a shot....so I'm going to do some research and look into what my options might be for that.

I'd love to hear from anyone who has experience with hernia's!

 

[FuzzyMugz]

Hello again,
Wow . . . I'm full of mixed feelings for you and Ruthie. First of all, I just so totally admire your determination, compassion and dedication to your little Faverolle. I believe there's a special place in heaven for folks like you. I'm very sorry that her condition wasn't something easier to heal or fix completely.
I share your love of Faverolles, and spent a couple of frustrating months with the ordering process for my own this summer. Mine are a couple weeks older than yours. I'm curious, you mentioned that she was in with other breeds? She's the only Faverolle then? I share your concern -- I ordered from MPC as well. Our birds are likely from the same stock. My first order of Faverolles didn't make it past the first couple days and it was gut-wrenching. They are just truly special little birds -- absolute heart-stealers. Because the other birds in that order died in shipping, I assume there may have been an environmental problem, possibly with shipping process.
When I got my second order I thought all was well with the Faverolles, until I also noticed a "bulge" on the abdomen of my little rooster. Like your girl, his feather development seemed a little slow, but I'd never considered that it might be a symptom of anything -- I'm new to this. I've read and studied, and picked the brains of everyone who has healthy, happy chickens, especially Faverolles, Nobody seemed to have have heard of anything like it. Certainly it wasn't something common to the breed. Lile you, I'd ruled out the same guesses (the timing was just wrong).
Oddly, one of my friends wondered if chicks that little or at any age could get hernias, It wasn't something that seemed to be affecting his health in any serious way -- he just looked like he was dragging around a really full diaper. That and he felt squishy. All I could think of in response was how on earth would we deal with that? I'm a fabric artist and a costumer, but I feel pretty twitchy about trying to fit a growing rooster for a truss.
However, I'd be willing to try, if I better understood where the pressure needed to be applied -- and where it shouldn't. There are so many elastic fabrics, many of them light, that could support, but shouldn't over-heat a bird -- not to mention sturdy but thin velcro. Probably it would be easier with Ruth; my guy, Fargo, would almost need something like an "overalls" sort of solution, since his is lower and larger. He'd need a "lift" more than just a "press."
It makes me wonder if any members with "special needs chickens" have already figured something like this out?
This is an amazingly creative bunch of folks, who love their chickens whole heartedly. I can't believe some of the awesome solutions and lovingly designed contraptions I've seen people come up with in these posts. I remind myself of that when I feel overwhelmed, or when I think I'm going overboard with a project that involves insanity in hopes of meeting their needs.

Honestly, I wish you the very best of luck with Ruthie, and I have to say that while I'm sorry for what you're going through, I don't think she could have landed in more caring hands. For however long she's with you, she's been loved extravagantly and deeply and however crazy it might seem to some, I believe she knows it, feels it.
I hope you'll keep everyone posted about her progress.
Ellen

 

[AndreaS]

Hi Ellen,

Thanks so much for your kind and encouraging words. And I'm so sorry to hear about your first batch of Faverolles. I can't imagine how difficult that must have been.

I LOVE Faverolles. Ruth is actually one of two in this batch. Gertrude is the other Faverolles chick....and she has a misaligned beak. I do wonder if something is going on with whomever MPC orders their Fav chicks from. I had two Faverolles in my first batch of chicks, three years ago, from Meyer hatchery. Bernice was my baby- She's my Avatar- and she died on June 29th when we had a sudden heat spike to 105 degrees. I was devastated.....I had a fan in their run, a mister and had been giving them frozen berries and electrolytes in their water. Bernice was a weak chick, I had to hand feed her to get her strength up before she finally came around. But when she did...man, she was full of spunk! She and my other Fav, Weezah, really made me fall in love with the breed. They have the best little personalities. Bernice was always prone to problems though, even after she made it through the rough patch a chick.

I've been searching everywhere and can't seem to find any information about anyone making a hernia belt for a chicken before. It seems like it should be possible, if, like you said...the fabric would breathe.....I'm just not sure how to go about it. Getting a piece of intestine pinched would be an obvious concern....but also, I was wondering if the pressure was in the right place and the bird was not full grown, might it help reverse the problem?

I'm not sure what I'm going to do. The vet said that she'd prefer to give it a couple weeks before surgery anyway....so I'm going to think on this some more. I hate having to put a dollar amount on a life. I know it's not practical, but man...if there is a solution to a problem, it's so hard not to go for it. I've left a message for Peter Brown at First State Vet Supply. He has helped me in the past, and I would be interested to know if he's ever heard of anything like this. I hope I hear back from him soon.

I'll keep this thread updated, even though there doesn't seem to be much interest in it. I know for people like me, the archives are such a great place for learning and I love it when people keep threads updated.

Keep my little Ruth in your thoughts and I'll do the same for your Fargo....I agree with you. They know when they are loved.

Andrea

 

[TeamChaos]

I will keep Ruth and Fargo in my chicken prayers for sure! A hernia, huh? Wow. My first thought is that it's not uncommon for chickens to be born w/ an intestinal protrusion before the navel closes... I wonder if searching those threads might yield some treatment ideas. I think if I were attempting to fashion a truss for a chick (thank you, Ellen, for putting the right word to the device- I couldn't think of it to save my life) I would start with something like vet wrap.Depending on the width/length of the actual hernia, you might have to put a little "roll" in the wrap so that it directs pressure on the hernia without being too tight on the entire bird.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/316725/lily-has-a-hernia I don't know if you already saw this, but maybe PM Wynette directly to see if she's got some experienced advice...
http://www.chickenchatter.org/view_topic.php?id=2016&forum_id=13 Here's a discussion about using bandaids for hernia treatment

I will definitely keep following this thread!

 

[AndreaS]

I will keep Ruth and Fargo in my chicken prayers for sure! A hernia, huh? Wow. My first thought is that it's not uncommon for chickens to be born w/ an intestinal protrusion before the navel closes... I wonder if searching those threads might yield some treatment ideas. I think if I were attempting to fashion a truss for a chick (thank you, Ellen, for putting the right word to the device- I couldn't think of it to save my life) I would start with something like vet wrap.Depending on the width/length of the actual hernia, you might have to put a little "roll" in the wrap so that it directs pressure on the hernia without being too tight on the entire bird.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/316725/lily-has-a-hernia I don't know if you already saw this, but maybe PM Wynette directly to see if she's got some experienced advice...
http://www.chickenchatter.org/view_topic.php?id=2016&forum_id=13 Here's a discussion about using bandaids for hernia treatment

I will definitely keep following this thread!

Vet wrap is a great idea!

I did see the post about Lily, and I PM'd the person who started it, but she hasn't been on in ages. I might give Wynette a try. I haven't found a post in the archives that addresses this problem with chicks and gives an actual update on how they did. Very frustrating. Thanks for the link to the chicken chatter convo. I'm going to search over there to see if I can find more info. One person on that thread said she used butterfly band aids on a chick and had pictures posted somewhere. I need to look for that.

So far, from my research it seems that in the adult hens who develop this problem it looks like sometimes they rip it open, causing a very nasty and terrible death and sometimes they have laying problems. I wish I had an idea of how this will effect my Ruthie considering that she is not yet full grown, and I do wonder, if I did use some kind of truss to hold it up while she is developing, would it be possible for the problem to right itself? I imagine not ,if the abdominal wall is torn and the edges have healed, then there doesn't seem to be much of a chance that it would grow back together.

I wish I had gone to vet school- I bet I would have saved the cost of tuition by now just on my and my families animals!

 

[BuffOrpington88]

It is so great that you've done all this! I think for now you just wat to keep the area clean and protected. Maybe bandage lightly with gauze and vetrap.

 

[TeamChaos]

I wish I had gone to vet school- I bet I would have saved the cost of tuition by now just on my and my families animals!

Girl, you and me BOTH! If chicks are like other young animals, once the protrusion is corrected (pushed back in) there is a very good chance that the muscle will close or at least reduce the gap and strengthen the wall. I have my own wack-a-doo healing theories, so after I placed a truss that I was confident took the pressure off the hernia (and allowed nothing to loop back through the opening) I would gently "rub" the area in hope of causing some localized healing reactions- light adhesions wouldn't be a bad thing in this case.

 

[AndreaS]

Agreed. I'm going to spend some time this weekend experimenting with vet wrap. She's still so tiny that it may be difficult. I haven't ruled out surgery as a possibility though, and am discussing the risks/ anesthesia precautions with the vet as well. I will keep you guys posted, and I really do appreciate all of the support!

 

[AndreaS]

Well, I've done a lot of thinking and researching and brain picking of generous folks here on BYC and two local vets.....and I've decided to get surgery for Ruthie. I found a board certified avian only vet locally in Durham, and I had an appointment with him today. He was wonderful.His name is Dr. Greg Burkett and if you google his name you will find that he is quite well known in the avian world- mainly for parrots and whatnot, but he has chickens and does work on them. He thinks there is a very big risk of strangulation of Ruth's intestines as she grows. Even if that doesn't happen, I've read one too many stories of grown birds with hernias who end up ripping them open and die a very terrible death. I spoke with Wynette about this because she experienced it with one of her birds, and she wishes she had put her down before it came to that point.

The biggest concern is with the anesthesia. Dr. Burkett said he has done surgical work on birds much smaller than Ruth and feels very comfortable doing it. Of course it is a risk. But the way I"m starting to think about it is that my options are very limited. I could put her down now, before something terrible happens to her, I could try to truss/belt the hernia and adjust it frequently as she grows, in which case there is a big chance of pinching intestine, or...I could elect to do surgery and risk the anesthesia. I know lots of folks have had terrible luck with birds under anesthesia, but I figure if anyone can do it, it would be an avian vet.

Dr. B did not charge me for the office visit today...even though I took up a lot of his time asking questions and showed him pictures of another chick I have with a misaligned beak to ask his opinion. I was also 20 minutes late because my GPS put me in the wrong direction, and he still took us. I was very impressed.

If Ruth was sickly and not doing well, I would be more concerned, but she is thriving. On our way to the appointment she was riding in my lap in on a towel, and she did her first little dust-bath practice, it was so cute! She had a little imaginary dust bath on the towel for about 20 minutes of our drive. I remember the first batch of chicks I had..the first time I saw one of them do that, I thought something was wrong, like they were having a seizure or something

I know if she doesn't make it through I'll be devastated and will question this decision.....but I'm really feeling like that is the best option for her. I will keep this thread updated. Surgery is Monday afternoon. Please send lots of good thoughts to Ruthie.