Swedish Flower Hen Thread

[Leahs Mom]

Quote: Interesting. I may just try hatching one of those next time around to see what comes of it.

 

[TxFlowers]

When you say the chicks will not hatch because of it and if they do hatch will die shortly after hatching you are saying it is a lethal gene.  It is obvious what posts are being talked about.

Carrying the double crested gene isn't harmful 100% of the time. I had a roo with huge crest and vaulted. He was as hardy as any other "normal" sfh except for vision impairment but apparently it can cause embryonic death or chick death in other cases. My first and only vaulted skull sfh was fortunate in that regard!

 

[HaplessRunner]

This is my understanding of blue egg mechanics:

There is a technique for assuring blue/blue green eggs from Easter eggers. The cockerel carries two genes for blue eggs while the hen only carries one gene for blue eggs. If you use a blue egg layer cockerel breed over any other breed hen you will get a hen that is guaranteed to have the blue egg laying gene. She will also carry the other egg color genes form her mother's breed. This results in the possibility of blue eggs,green to pink to olive egg colors. This occurs when the color assuming brown is painted onto the blue shell as it travels down the oviduct to laying.

If the process is reversed with a any other breed rooster over a blue egg layer hen, then there are no guarantees. Since the hen can only pass on the one gene, 50 % of the hens from this cross will the rooster's breed egg color and the other 50% will have a blue egg laying capability of course with browns painted over the blue. Hence your brown egg layer Easter Egger.

In blue egg laying chickens, the egg shell is blue from the inside to the outside. That is. the entire egg shell is blue all the way through. All other eggs are white shelled. Even the brown and dark chocolate colored eggs are white. The difference is that the brown egg layers paint the brown onto the white shell as it travels down the oviduct. Crack a brown egg open and you will see a white shell on the inside.

Thoughts? Please feel free to enlighten me if this understanding is incorrect!

 

[lonnyandrinda]

This is my understanding of blue egg mechanics:
There is a technique for assuring blue/blue green eggs from Easter eggers. The cockerel carries two genes for blue eggs while the hen only carries one gene for blue eggs. If you use a blue egg layer cockerel breed over any other breed hen you will get a hen that is guaranteed to have the blue egg laying gene. She will also carry the other egg color genes form her mother's breed. This results in the possibility of blue eggs,green to pink to olive egg colors. This occurs when the color assuming brown is painted onto the blue shell as it travels down the oviduct to laying.

If the process is reversed with a any other breed rooster over a blue egg layer hen, then there are no guarantees. Since the hen can only pass on the one gene, 50 % of the hens from this cross will the rooster's breed egg color and the other 50% will have a blue egg laying capability of course with browns painted over the blue. Hence your brown egg layer Easter Egger.

In blue egg laying chickens, the egg shell is blue from the inside to the outside. That is. the entire egg shell is blue all the way through. All other eggs are white shelled. Even the brown and dark chocolate colored eggs are white. The difference is that the brown egg layers paint the brown onto the white shell as it travels down the oviduct. Crack a brown egg open and you will see a white shell on the inside.

Thoughts? Please feel free to enlighten me if this understanding is incorrect!

Hm I will have to research that. I've never heard that. My understanding was blue egg gene is a simple dominant gene and that hens and roos both could carry none, one or two.

 

[5moore]

This is my understanding of blue egg mechanics:

There is a technique for assuring blue/blue green eggs from Easter eggers. The cockerel carries two genes for blue eggs while the hen only carries one gene for blue eggs. If you use a blue egg layer cockerel breed over any other breed hen you will get a hen that is guaranteed to have the blue egg laying gene. She will also carry the other egg color genes form her mother's breed. This results in the possibility of blue eggs,green to pink to olive egg colors. This occurs when the color assuming brown is painted onto the blue shell as it travels down the oviduct to laying.

If the process is reversed with a any other breed rooster over a blue egg layer hen, then there are no guarantees. Since the hen can only pass on the one gene, 50 % of the hens from this cross will the rooster's breed egg color and the other 50% will have a blue egg laying capability of course with browns painted over the blue. Hence your brown egg layer Easter Egger.

In blue egg laying chickens, the egg shell is blue from the inside to the outside. That is. the entire egg shell is blue all the way through. All other eggs are white shelled. Even the brown and dark chocolate colored eggs are white. The difference is that the brown egg layers paint the brown onto the white shell as it travels down the oviduct. Crack a brown egg open and you will see a white shell on the inside.

Thoughts? Please feel free to enlighten me if this understanding is incorrect!

Here is what I know from experience. I started with three "olive egger" hens that laid pink, tan and brown. They were made with a cream legbar rooster and a maran hen. I took those three and put back with a different cream legbar rooster. I kept 3 of those f2's. One lays an olive egg, one lays a tan and one lays a brownish pink. So I'm undecided what to do next. None of the 6 laid blue.

 

[dretd]

This is my understanding of blue egg mechanics:

There is a technique for assuring blue/blue green eggs from Easter eggers. The cockerel carries two genes for blue eggs while the hen only carries one gene for blue eggs. If you use a blue egg layer cockerel breed over any other breed hen you will get a hen that is guaranteed to have the blue egg laying gene. She will also carry the other egg color genes form her mother's breed. This results in the possibility of blue eggs,green to pink to olive egg colors. This occurs when the color assuming brown is painted onto the blue shell as it travels down the oviduct to laying.

If the process is reversed with a any other breed rooster over a blue egg layer hen, then there are no guarantees. Since the hen can only pass on the one gene, 50 % of the hens from this cross will the rooster's breed egg color and the other 50% will have a blue egg laying capability of course with browns painted over the blue. Hence your brown egg layer Easter Egger.

In blue egg laying chickens, the egg shell is blue from the inside to the outside. That is. the entire egg shell is blue all the way through. All other eggs are white shelled. Even the brown and dark chocolate colored eggs are white. The difference is that the brown egg layers paint the brown onto the white shell as it travels down the oviduct. Crack a brown egg open and you will see a white shell on the inside.

Thoughts? Please feel free to enlighten me if this understanding is incorrect!

Hi and good morning!

I have a link to a table that shows which chromosomes carry which genes so that you can see what traits are linked together:
http://www.edelras.nl/chickengenetics/linkages.html

The Blue egg gene is on chromosome 1 (along with the Pea comb) whereas the sex chromosome, Z does not have shell coloration. Z does have silver (S) and slow feathering (K), which is why you can use those traits to make Sex Links.

Conventional wisdom says that the brown pigment is painted on the outside of a white shell, however, there are some breeds where there are small amounts of brown pigment deposited along the entire tract so the inside of the shell appears tinted as well. I believe that the minty green color of many of the CL eggs are because of this companion coloration to the blue as all of the greener colored eggs I have opened are similarly colored on the interior (with membranes stripped, of course). I have an EE that lays tinted eggs and her eggs are 'pink' through and through. She also has a pea comb. Here is a comparison of a Welsummer, EE and CL egg--both interior on the left and exterior of the shell on the right:

 

[Bulldogma]

you do not come across in the way you write that what you are stating is just your opinion. you state it as a fact

Perhaps you need to re-read my statements. I state NOTHING as a fact and was very careful to indicate this in my verbiage:

From post 7959:
"We can assume a certain amount of evolutions in those regions that kept primarily crested birds... and that birds from regions that kept primarily uncrested birds would likely have different genetics. Thus, it is likely that the most fatal of crosses result from breeding crested birds to heterozygous crested birds with a primarily uncrested lineage who have not had time to evolve to the point of lower mortality rates from homozygous crests."

From post 7962:
"That's correct. To my understanding, the crested flocks were found north of the original uncrested flocks from the first import.
The birds from uncrested flocks may not do as well if crossed and then re-crossed with crested birds because their genetics haven't adapted yet. (This is all assumption.) But the crested flocks have been bred with crests for years... thus I believe they have adapted - the weaker ones died out and only the stronger ones lived and bred.
The uncrested flocks still possess some of the genetics that don't do well with the crest...
Uncrested from uncrested flock X Crested from crested flock = Heterozygous Crested bird with mixed bloodline.
Heterozygous Crested bird with mixed bloodline X Heterozygous Crested bird with mixed bloodline = Homozygous crested bird with a 50% genetic makeup from uncrested flocks... potentially = higher mortality rates.
My thought is that the flocks that were bred for many years to have crests don't have issues with the homozygous crests - but here in the US we're mixing those with uncrested bloodlines with crested bloodlines and perhaps this is where the problem comes from.
Again - this is a theory..."

so what your now saying is that it is just your opinion that crested to crested is a lethal gene and that Swedish flower hens are not like normal chickens. It is a fact that the gene for the crest is not a lethal gene.

No where is there ANY statement about a "lethal gene" - only that different groups of SFH in different regions evolved in different ways.

It all comes down to what you prefer. Yes the crested birds came from farms that were farther to the north but they are still Swedish flower hens and being bred and preserved in the country of origin. So why should we in the US change the breed by breeding away from the crested birds.

I'm not really sure what posts you have been reading, but in the posts I have been reading people have suggested pairing crested with uncrested birds. This is in no way breeding away from crests considering that HALF of these birds would be crested in such pairings.

What your saying just doesn't make any sense.

I believe I am making perfect sense to those who chose to read my posts as they were intended to be read.

Moving forward, I will be discussing Swedish Flower Hens. I will continue to present my opinions and the basis for those opinions.

 

[Leahs Mom]

BDM - I sent you an email regarding my little Gray SFH girl. Maybe I should post that here and see what folks think.

I had this thought after I wrote it. I thought that if she would perhaps go broody that may change the personality of things and her willingness to stand up for herself and the chicks. Of course I know I can't count on her going broody.

That bird is such a dilemma.

 

[ancientoaks]

I'm going to stop posting about this now but in the past you and another person keep saying that the chicks will die in shell or shortly after they hatch if they are pure to the crest gene.

You keep insinuating that this is a fact and say that is why it is mentioned over and over on this forum.

it is only after some one like me posts what is true that you change your post to add that it is only your opinion but because you act as though you are the authority on this breed the others on the list take what you say as fact.

The list is for the enjoyment of the breed so lets not argue and try to make it out like your not saying what you are.

this is the last I'll be saying on this subject.

I still plan on breeding my best birds to each other and not care if that means both parents will have a crest. I like the color and that along with conformation is what I'm breeding for if they have a crest that is Ok. I like the crest. If they don't have a crest that is Ok as well.

good luck with what ever you choose to breed. I'm very happy with the results of what my flower chickens are producing.

 

[Bulldogma]

I'm going to stop posting about this now but in the past you and another person keep saying that the chicks will die in shell or shortly after they hatch if they are pure to the crest gene.

You keep insinuating that this is a fact and say that is why it is mentioned over and over on this forum.

it is only after some one like me posts what is true that you change your post to add that it is only your opinion but because you act as though you are the authority on this breed the others on the list take what you say as fact.

I don't take kindly to people publicly misrepresenting my words or intentions.

If anyone can find any post of mine where I state that the chicks from crested x crested pairings WILL die in the shell or shortly after hatch and present this as fact, please direct us all to said post and link.

If not, then please stop telling everybody that I said or meant something I did NOT say or mean.