Swollen Face, No Apparent Injury or Pus (Has Pics)

[RaccoonRancher]

One of the Ah-Ha things I read is PERMETHRIN!!! Pretty nasty stuff...Both by ingestion or inhalation....If you'retring to get rid of any bacteria or viruses, Bleach diluted to 10 parts water to 1 part bleach will kill even the aids virus......after exposure to air & evaporation leaves no residual....But Permethrins?? A whole different ball game.....its a poison...How certain are you of the application % as directed?..Spraying the area more than 1 coat coverage is compounding the ratio to be used...more is NOT better....my opnion is not to use it at all on small animal locations.....just my 2 cents....RR

 

[RaccoonRancher]

One of the Ah-Ha things I read is PERMETHRIN!!! Pretty nasty stuff...Both by ingestion or inhalation....If you'retring to get rid of any bacteria or viruses, Bleach diluted to 10 parts water to 1 part bleach will kill even the aids virus......after exposure to air & evaporation leaves no residual....But Permethrins?? A whole different ball game.....its a poison...How certain are you of the application % as directed?....my opnion is not to use it at all on small animal locations.....just my 2 cents....RR

 

[chickengeorgeto]

With the swollen waddles and sneezing the most likely thing is fowl cholera. Sorry.

 

[Haunted55]

With the swollen waddles and sneezing the most likely thing is fowl cholera. Sorry.

Fowl Cholera
Synonyms: avian pasteurellosis, cholera, avian hemorrhagic septicemia.
Species affected: Domestic fowl of all species (primarily turkeys and chickens), game birds (especially
pheasants and ducks), cage birds, wild birds, and birds in zoological collections and
aviaries are susceptible.
Clinical signs: Fowl cholera usually strikes birds older than 6 weeks of age. In acute outbreaks, dead
birds may be the first sign. Fever, reduced feed consumption, mucoid discharge from
the mouth, ruffled feathers, diarrhea, and labored breathing may be seen. As the disease
progresses birds lose weight, become lame from joint infections, and develop rattling
noises from exudate in air passages. As fowl cholera becomes chronic, chickens develop
abscessed wattles and swollen joints and foot pads. Caseous exudate may form in the
sinuses around the eyes. Turkeys may have twisted necks (see Table 3).
Transmission: Multiple means of transmission have been demonstrated. Flock additions, free-flying
birds, infected premises, predators, and rodents are all possibilities.
Treatment: A flock can be medicated with a sulfa drug (sulfonamides, especially sulfadimethoxine,
sulfaquinonxalene, sulfamethazine, and sulfaquinoxalene) or vaccinated, or both, to stop
mortality associated with an outbreak. It must be noted, however, that sulfa drugs are not
FDA approved for use in pullets older than 14 weeks or for commercial laying hens. Sulfa
drugs leave residues in meat and eggs. Antibiotics can be used, but require higher levels
and long term medication to stop the outbreak.
Prevention: On fowl cholera endemic farms, vaccination is advisable. Do not vaccinate for fowl
cholera unless you have a problem on the farm. Rodent control is essential to prevent​

future outbreaks.

Common Poultry Diseases 1​

G.D. Butcher, J.P. Jacob, and F.B. Mather2

 

[Haunted55]

Some of the symptoms fit and it could very well be but so many of these things have a lot of the same symptoms. If it were just the swelling on the face without signs of being picked at by another bird I'd agree wholeheartedly. The absence of the other symptoms usually evident with this and only the one bird showing the advanced signs....I hesitated to bring this one up.

 

[echosrevenge]

I brought her inside last night with another hen for company, the swelling was a bit worse (spreading towards her eye in the evening, with some draining out her ear) so we wrapped her in a towel and did some hot compresses while we watched a movie and she spent the night inside by the stove for warmth. This morning, the swelling is much lessened and she is eating and drinking ravenously - not just treats, but her regular layer food as well. Her eye is totally clear, though she's still a bit crusty around the ear on that side, which I am taking as a promising sign in conjunction with the reduced swelling - it says to me that the infection is draining on its' own and her immune system is doing what it should. No one else is showing symptoms, in fact I heard not a single sneeze or rasp when I was in the coop for almost 30 mins this morning (still gonna give the final dose of abx tomorrow though, no reason not to). Yesterday they laid more eggs than they have since I moved them to the new house, so I think things are looking up.

As for the permethrin, I am pretty leery of insecticides and things in general - for me, using permethrin at all is a last resort, but as it's derived from chrysanthemum flowers seemed to be the least invasive of the really effective ways to control lice and mites - I've had terrible experiences with Ivermectin and Frontline both, with dogs and dairy goats, and hesitated to use something off-label for my birds (a good friend's dog died horribly after an allergic reaction to topical Frontline at the recommended dosage, it's not nearly as safe as it's made out to be, and ivermectin is just SCARY). Mites have been a HUGE problem this year in my state, though. Only a couple of people I know have escaped major outbreaks, and many have lost prized birds to them this year in my area, so when I saw one I did NOT want to run the risk, especially since my birds free-range and come in contact with/range in the same areas as wild turkeys, crows, and other wild birds. I did three lighter-than-the-bottle-said-to applications, one on the old coop and one in the new coop on the same day (about a week before I moved the birds, and I was sure to treat the old coop when all the birds were out free-ranging at the old house), and another in the new coop two days before I moved the birds in. There is a bit of permethrin dust in their sand box, but it's maybe 2 shakes of the can mixed into over 150lbs of sand, wood ash, cedar chips, and diatomaceous earth (also used sparingly, but not as sparingly as the permethrin). I also washed all the birds in shifts over a couple of days (limited space to dry them by the wood stove, and being off-grid a hairdryer is totally out of the question), using peppermint & rosemary castile soap and a strong vinegar solution. I haven't seen any lice or mites since.

I seriously doubt it's fowl cholera. Only one bird showing only one symptom does not a diagnosis make. All of the flock has (and has had) normal poops, no swollen feet, no one is showing any lameness, and no one is rattling when they breathe. In fact, they're all bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, REALLY mad at me for not letting them sneak out for a free-range in the snow today. I've been monitoring their condition carefully since I first heard sneezing, and no one has lost weight - if anything, all the extra treats they've been getting are making them put on weight! (My sister works in the produce department of an organic grocery co-op, and has been supplying me with fresh produce and expired raw milk yogurt for them while they're on ABX, which they are DEVOURING like the little feathery velociraptors they are). Going immediately to the worst-case scenario when the evidence doesn't fit with it is not helpful to anyone.

I did get both landlords from both houses (old and new) on the phone last night to quiz them about the health of their birds. Neither of them had any respiratory issues at all when they kept chickens, never had a mysteriously dead bird, sudden drop in egg production, or any of the other things that would trip a warning bell in my head, so I am thinking that it's probably just a common cold or allergies combined with stress and dust from being moved, possibly combining also with a reaction to having her beard plucked out by that darn red sexlink. Regardless, I have contacted all the people who were scheduled for picking up hatching eggs over the next couple of weeks and put them off until I have more observation time, but I am not going to cull the whole flock unless it becomes absolutely necessary and I have clinical tests to prove it. Getting a vet tech friend on the phone last night was very helpful - she made the excellent point that the common cold happens in birds too, and is just that - common. "A darn sight more common than MG, IB, or cholera" were her exact words. She also reminded me that the internet is not a veterinarian, that I take generally excellent care with my birds, and that my own experience and instincts with animals are usually spot-on (I've worked with many, many species of animals for many years, from dogs and cats to coatimundis and macaques).

She'll stay inside until the swelling is gone or she dies (which is seeming less likely by the minute, she's determined to get out of her box and explore the living room this morning, which doesn't tend to be the modus operandi of a dying bird), and I'll hold off on selling any more hatching eggs or any chicks until I've hatched out another batch of eggs and have the information from that.

 

[Haunted55]

I would use the betadine and vaseline mix topically to help draw it out.

"As for the permethrin, I am pretty leery of insecticides and things in general - for me, using permethrin at all is a last resort, but as it's derived from chrysanthemum flowers seemed to be the least invasive of the really effective ways to control lice and mites"

http://www.ask.com/wiki/Permethrin

If you are using woodash, DE and sand already in your dusting box, you've pretty much got it covered. I use peatmoss, sand, woodash, and DE and I have never had a single mite or louse in 2 years. Maybe this year will be the one, but so far not a one.

 

[Haunted55]

I am glad you have a friend who is a Vet Tech that you can call. I am sorry that they seem to think that experience counts for nought but that's their right. I did come across something you may find very interesting and have included the link here. Really quite informative actually.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/123652/in-length-article-re-chicken-colds

 

[mg15]

That is an option but not one I'd recommend. Some would and have very good reason to do so. If these birds are for your use only, they are laying and fertile...I wouldn't. If you planned on selling them or something along these lines, then yes. Culling and a major cleaning would be about the only options you had. IF this is in fact one of the diseases like MG or the others. If you think this just may be something from being picked on, the vaseline with the betadine mixed in should get rid of it. Should, but might not. It really does depend on what's causing the swelling. You may find out it's an ingrown feather. The sneezing sounds supicious and that's why I brought up the respiratory diseases. If in getting things ready to move you stirred up a lot of dust, the sneezing could have been from that. I don't know, I wasn't there, lol. You have to answer that.

The ground can be treated with wood ash. Just spread it around where they will be going out to range. Another thing that can be used is lime. I don't have all of the answers and for the most part, this is an individual decision that you will have to make. I hope you can find out it's absolutely nothing to worry about. I love a happy ending!

What does the lime do. How much to use.?
Thanks.

 

[Haunted55]

What does the lime do. How much to use.?
Thanks.

Depending on how big an area you are talking about.....I have a lime spreader that I fill up with the lime and just roll it over the lawn when I know it's going to rain. Fairly heavy coat and then let the rain wash it into the ground. You can also just use a rake and scratch it in. Regular lawn lime. I have used the lime in their pen as well, just scratch the ground really well after application. It can burn their feet if it isn't mixed in pretty well. Under wildbird feeders is an especially good place to do this.

The lime works to kill the Marek's virus, that can be present on the ground and it also will drive worms away which can carry cocci that can infect your birds as well.