Swollen foot

[Sarajobe]

We have a hen that we thought had bumble foot, so we took it off and cleaned it, but it just seemed to be a big callus. We have kept it clean and wrapped, but now her whole foot is swollen. We soaked her in epsom salt and applied some silvex because antibiotic ointment wasn't doing anything. We gave her the recommended dose of amoxicillin and plan to give her some ibuprofen in a bit. I don't want to unwrap her foot to take pictures, but will the next time we do it. The wound actually doesn't look bad, but the foot is swollen. What else can we do? Thank you!

 

[coach723]

Pictures would be helpful, when you can get them. Did you maybe wrap the foot too tight, that could cause swelling also?

 

[Sarajobe]

Pictures would be helpful, when you can get them. Did you maybe wrap the foot too tight, that could cause swelling also?

Here's both feet then just the one. The other has a scab too so we bandaged that too after her soak so it doesn't allow germs in the softened skin.

 

[coach723]

It looks to me like there is still infection in there. When you removed the scab before, did you do any squeezing or manipulating to see if anything would come out? What did the tissue underneath look like? The top foot (darker lesion) in particular, that looks like a bumble lesion to me, not a normal healing scab. Pus underneath can look white or creamy colored, and can adhere to the tissue, making it take some manipulation to get it all out. I would remove that scab again, and really work on cleaning it out, see if you can get anything more out of it. If you take some pictures during, and when finished, that would help a lot, so I can see better what's in there. Sometimes packing the hole with sugardine (I will put a link below to a thread on that) will help with getting it cleaned out and knocked back. I've had very good results with it. You may want to try that. Bumblefoot can be a slow process, sometimes repeated cleanings to get it all out, and then healing. It can take months sometimes, so persistence is needed.
"Sugardine works by combining the antimicrobial and antiseptic properties of povidone-iodine (Betadine) with the moisture-absorbing and tissue-nourishing qualities of sugar, creating a paste that draws out impurities, reduces bacteria, and supports the body's natural healing processes. The high sugar concentration prevents bacteria from growing by absorbing water, while the iodine acts as a broad-spectrum disinfectant. This dual action creates a poultice-like effect that cleans the wound and promotes rapid healing of tissues. "
Thread on sugardine is here, see post #8 here:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/bumblefoot-not-healing.1443809/

 

[Sarajobe]

It looks to me like there is still infection in there. When you removed the scab before, did you do any squeezing or manipulating to see if anything would come out? What did the tissue underneath look like? The top foot (darker lesion) in particular, that looks like a bumble lesion to me, not a normal healing scab. Pus underneath can look white or creamy colored, and can adhere to the tissue, making it take some manipulation to get it all out. I would remove that scab again, and really work on cleaning it out, see if you can get anything more out of it. If you take some pictures during, and when finished, that would help a lot, so I can see better what's in there. Sometimes packing the hole with sugardine (I will put a link below to a thread on that) will help with getting it cleaned out and knocked back. I've had very good results with it. You may want to try that. Bumblefoot can be a slow process, sometimes repeated cleanings to get it all out, and then healing. It can take months sometimes, so persistence is needed.
"Sugardine works by combining the antimicrobial and antiseptic properties of povidone-iodine (Betadine) with the moisture-absorbing and tissue-nourishing qualities of sugar, creating a paste that draws out impurities, reduces bacteria, and supports the body's natural healing processes. The high sugar concentration prevents bacteria from growing by absorbing water, while the iodine acts as a broad-spectrum disinfectant. This dual action creates a poultice-like effect that cleans the wound and promotes rapid healing of tissues. "
Thread on sugardine is here, see post #8 here:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/bumblefoot-not-healing.1443809/

I don't think it was bumble to start is the problem. When we pulled it off, it just bled profusely, there was nothing to squeeze out. We put blood stop powder on it because it just wouldn't stop. Then had to wrap it with it on there so it wouldn't bleed more. Today is the first day it was dark like that. It's been a light color. I was surprised and disappointed to see it like that today.

 

[coach723]

Bumblefoot usually doesn't bleed profusely, there may be some seeping of it, but it's usually not that bad. If you want, try to pack it with sugardine, as it is, without digging, for several days to a week, see if it helps and gets some swelling to go down. Then reassess how it's looking. You need to do the sugardine daily, once a day, and wrap well. The duoderm bandages discussed in the link I gave you are very helpful with the sugardine. In a pinch I have used a small square of plastic wrap over it, to hold it in, and then bandaged and wrapped over that. The duoderm is easier and works better, but if you don't have it....do what you can.

 

[Sarajobe]

Bumblefoot usually doesn't bleed profusely, there may be some seeping of it, but it's usually not that bad. If you want, try to pack it with sugardine, as it is, without digging, for several days to a week, see if it helps and gets some swelling to go down. Then reassess how it's looking. You need to do the sugardine daily, once a day, and wrap well. The duoderm bandages discussed in the link I gave you are very helpful with the sugardine. In a pinch I have used a small square of plastic wrap over it, to hold it in, and then bandaged and wrapped over that. The duoderm is easier and works better, but if you don't have it....do what you can.

That was my thought too, that bumble shouldn't bleed like that. We thought we were helping, but unfortunately I think we made it worse. We've been using Nonstick pads and wrapping well with self stick wrap at least once daily. I'll try the sugardine though for sure. She's walking a little better today, but she's been pretty slow the last few days. I really appreciate your input!

 

[Sarajobe]

Bumblefoot usually doesn't bleed profusely, there may be some seeping of it, but it's usually not that bad. If you want, try to pack it with sugardine, as it is, without digging, for several days to a week, see if it helps and gets some swelling to go down. Then reassess how it's looking. You need to do the sugardine daily, once a day, and wrap well. The duoderm bandages discussed in the link I gave you are very helpful with the sugardine. In a pinch I have used a small square of plastic wrap over it, to hold it in, and then bandaged and wrapped over that. The duoderm is easier and works better, but if you don't have it....do what you can.

We've been struggling with her foot still. It just keeps spreading. The swelling went down a bit. We've been giving baytril and soaking and the sugardine. The duoderm kept sticking horribly and making her bleed though. I ordered some tricedineo to try for soaking and going to call a vet tomorrow, but there is only one within an hour of us. I think she may need a steroid too? I currently have lyme so I am not up for a longer drive than that, but hoping they have soemthing this week. She is in good spirits and acting fine otherwise, but pretty sure she's going to lose a toe at the very least. I think the Baytril has been keeping it from getting really bad, but she can't be on it forever.

 

[coach723]

The one foot doesn't look too bad. The other I would have expected to see more improvement. Have you been treating the lesion on the bottom of the foot as well, or just the ankle area? Sorry you are dealing with your own health issues at the same time as this, just makes everything harder. I hope you are able to get into the vet and they are able to help. The one toe does look questionable at the tip, but the rest of the foot looks like it's recoverable if you can get the infection knocked out. Maybe the tricide neo will at least help enough to give you some time before you can get her in. Not that it's a good thing, but birds survive and do well with missing toes, happens a fair amount to them from injury.

 

[Sarajobe]

The one foot doesn't look too bad. The other I would have expected to see more improvement. Have you been treating the lesion on the bottom of the foot as well, or just the ankle area? Sorry you are dealing with your own health issues at the same time as this, just makes everything harder. I hope you are able to get into the vet and they are able to help. The one toe does look questionable at the tip, but the rest of the foot looks like it's recoverable if you can get the infection knocked out. Maybe the tricide neo will at least help enough to give you some time before you can get her in. Not that it's a good thing, but birds survive and do well with missing toes, happens a fair amount to them from injury.

The good looking foot is just a callus. We had covered and treated for a bit because we were soaking both feet and didn't want to soften and let germs in. I think the other would be way worse had we not done anything, but for all our effort, it still looks bad. We've been treating the whole thing. The swelling pushed her scales off so then stuff was really sticking, then bleeding. Ugh. We do have a rooster that came with a missing toe this year. Looks like it got chopped right off in the hatching/boxing process. Her leg is still warm, but I'm holding onto hope that she'll get through it since she is still acting normally. Scratching and all. When we soaked her today, I just slathered triple antibiotic on it after then gauze and self sticking wrap. Thanks for for help and support. It's just so frustrating and with me being sick I've felt bad I couldn't get her in already. I really thought it would have been doing better by now though.