Symptoms of Crow Predation on Chicks?

[cmom]

Since you free range then you are going to loose birds to predators.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Since you free range then you are going to loose birds to predators.

Well of course. But its very rare for mine to be successfully preyed upon. I've only lost 1 adult jungle fowl hybrid and 2 adult layers since I started with them a year and a half ago. The JF especially are very alert and agile. What I'm trying to diagnose is what's causing these patterned disappearances when the chicks hit a certain age. To loose a chick a day to every other day for several days in a row that only starts when the chicks hit around the 2 month mark is more than random predatory coincidence. Its something that's happening at a certain level of maturity. That's why I'm starting to consider that they're killing each other in light of the bloody heads I've seen them have. I don't really know what into the makeup of my birds so I don't know how much aggression is inherent in them. The mature hens beat the heck out of each other. I haven't let any of the roosters stay together into maturity to test their aggression. I'll post a video of the hens fighting in one of the gamefowl threads.

BTW, the crows haven't been around in some time. They were in the thickest during blueberry season but I don't think I've seen crows near the house in a month or more. So I am crossing them off the list for all but the most random predation events. I definitely don't think they'd be capable of cornering and catching these older chicks with any regularity.

 

[cmom]

I have some cameras on posts that I move around. You may be surprised.

Although this won't work for aerial predators it will for others.
http://www.plamondon.com/wp/faq-simple-electric-fences-chickens/

 

[MrFluffyandGirls]

I have a murder of 5 crows that have lived on my property for the last 7 years. I actively watch them along with the other wildlife around my property. I have seen them grab redbird and mocking bird chicks from the nest and fly off with them. I have also seen them fly by with small squirrel. From my observation I'm sure they can do it to chicks too. But I like them around for the same reason as you because they keep the hawks out of range. When a hawk or any other bird of prey for that matter fly's across they make a ruckus and start a aerial assault.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Finally have some hard evidence. Likely a raptor after all.

So I noticed this morning another bitty was missing. A unique bitty at that, a half JF half Wyandotte with black and white feathers. It was present in the coop last night and this morning when I turned the chickens out.

Late this morning I caught a rooster running around with an odd piece of flesh in its mouth. Another rooster took it away and then dropped it when hit by a third rooster. I was able to get the chunk of meat before they could pick it back up. It looked like a piece of neck meat with the comb attached. So I looked around and behind the coop next to the pond I found a pile of black and white feathers with guts and crop contents. And another cockerel helping itself to the guts.

It didn't seem likely to me that a hawk flew in this morning while I've been outside nearby and then was so bold as to pluck and gut the bird right behind the coop in view of the house and my dogs. But as I thought about it, it also didn't seem realistic that the chickens would have so thoroughly dismembered one either, as the main carcass was still missing.

So I went back and looked around. I noticed that in the little bit of time I had walked away and came back, the chickens had consumed the remaining meat and had scratched the spot over. Had the feathers not contained a lot of white (and generally they wouldn't contain any bright colors on the other chicks), I probably wouldn't have noticed the feather pile at all by late evening.

Then low and behold, I found the carcass...

The carcass was laying in a clump of Spanish moss about 2 feet off the ground and about 6 feet from the feather and gut pile. I don't think it was realistic that a chicken picked it up and got it caught in the moss. What seems most likely is that a bird of prey had the carcass up on a limb above the moss and dropped the carcass. Or alternatively the raptor tried to fly off with the carcass after being disturbed from eating it behind the coop and lost it when it took off.

Head was gone. Insides removed. No feeding on the muscle flesh.

I don't think a coon or bobcat is realistic so close to my dogs and the house, and I highly doubt one would corner itself up a tree to feed in the broad daylight. At the time I was finding the feathers I did hear the pair of red shouldered hawks calling from the closest woodline about 100 yards away.

With this evidence now, I think the original suspects the red-shouldered hawks are the most likely culprits, and they've simply learned how to be hyper stealthy around both me and the chickens. I have yet to catch them in the act. I've been outside a good chunk of this morning too since I turned the chickens out.

 

[centrarchid]

Coopers Hawk

Still say this guy, but either you or I is a contrarian.

 

[Araucana Nest]

Here’s my situation. I have a free range flock of around 110 head of adult and juvenile birds. Mostly red jungle fowl hybrids, but also mixed layers and guineafowl. My birds free range from dawn to dusk. 40 acres, mostly blueberry fields but also lots of woods. Surrounded by thousands of acres of woods. Every predator native to my part of Florida is present minus Florida panthers and unconfirmed whether weasels or minks are present.

I generally don’t lose adult birds between the alertness of my jungle fowl and my free range dogs. 1 hen to a hawk, 1 guinea to a snake, 1 guinea likely to a bobcat. That’s all in a year’s time Once in a while I lose a bitty or too but I figure that’s par for the course. Sometimes even bullfrogs and bass make attempts on them at waterside. Most bitties make it to adulthood without my intervention.

Several weeks ago I had a hatch of 25 jungle fowl bitties between 2 hens. The hens abandoned the bitties after about a month. They finned for themselves and I’d steadily lose 1-3 chicks a day several days in a row. Finally the last 5 proved to be resilient and they’re holding on. But I couldn’t diagnose a particular predator to save my life. All I could do was narrow the time frame down to daylight hours when the bitties would be taken. I also noted the adults generally stayed calm and showed no obvious signs of a predator hanging about. No sign of disease. Just disappearing bitties. The bitties did seem very weary of the sky and stuck to cover but the other chickens did not.

So recently I turned loose some guinea keets. Several weeks old, about the size of my hand to fingertips. One disappeared on day 2 of free ranging. A second had a wounded leg the same day the first disappeared. I gathered them up and penned them for a couple more weeks then turned them out again. A third disappeared after day 4 or 5 of free ranging, then appeared this morning with wounded legs. I actually cant find the wounds. Just that it hobbles. Like something had ahold of it and it struggled free. It must have spent yesterday laid up somewhere recuperating.

I can’t imagine a predator that can so efficiently take multiple chicks every day but struggles with larger guinea keets and can be so stealthy that I never see it.

Crow live constantly over my coop and the blueberry fields where the chicks run. I let them be because I figure they keep hawks at bay. But they always hang out with the chicken flock. This started about the time chicks began disappearing.

I never asked myself what the crows were getting out of the arrangement. They don’t have access to feed or eggs.

What does crow predation look like?

I have crows all over and there is no predation. Could it be snakes? One single snake will take half a dozen baby chicks in on sitting. A larger snake will take more. edited: nevermind. a snake wouldn't do that.

 

[MrFluffyandGirls]

Finally have some hard evidence. Likely a raptor after all.

So I noticed this morning another bitty was missing. A unique bitty at that, a half JF half Wyandotte with black and white feathers. It was present in the coop last night and this morning when I turned the chickens out.

Late this morning I caught a rooster running around with an odd piece of flesh in its mouth. Another rooster took it away and then dropped it when hit by a third rooster. I was able to get the chunk of meat before they could pick it back up. It looked like a piece of neck meat with the comb attached. So I looked around and behind the coop next to the pond I found a pile of black and white feathers with guts and crop contents. And another cockerel helping itself to the guts.

View attachment 2313169

View attachment 2313165

View attachment 2313166

It didn't seem likely to me that a hawk flew in this morning while I've been outside nearby and then was so bold as to pluck and gut the bird right behind the coop in view of the house and my dogs. But as I thought about it, it also didn't seem realistic that the chickens would have so thoroughly dismembered one either, as the main carcass was still missing.

So I went back and looked around. I noticed that in the little bit of time I had walked away and came back, the chickens had consumed the remaining meat and had scratched the spot over. Had the feathers not contained a lot of white (and generally they wouldn't contain any bright colors on the other chicks), I probably wouldn't have noticed the feather pile at all by late evening.

View attachment 2313174

Then low and behold, I found the carcass...

View attachment 2313171View attachment 2313173

The carcass was laying in a clump of Spanish moss about 2 feet off the ground and about 6 feet from the feather and gut pile. I don't think it was realistic that a chicken picked it up and got it caught in the moss. What seems most likely is that a bird of prey had the carcass up on a limb above the moss and dropped the carcass. Or alternatively the raptor tried to fly off with the carcass after being disturbed from eating it behind the coop and lost it when it took off.

Head was gone. Insides removed. No feeding on the muscle flesh.

I don't think a coon or bobcat is realistic so close to my dogs and the house, and I highly doubt one would corner itself up a tree to feed in the broad daylight. At the time I was finding the feathers I did hear the pair of red shouldered hawks calling from the closest woodline about 100 yards away.

With this evidence now, I think the original suspects the red-shouldered hawks are the most likely culprits, and they've simply learned how to be hyper stealthy around both me and the chickens. I have yet to catch them in the act. I've been outside a good chunk of this morning too since I turned the chickens out.

So you got stealth bombed! Well at least you know what your dealing with now. I'm surprised the crows aren't raising cane when it comes around.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Over the past week I've caught the red shouldered hawks in the act twice. On Sunday 9/6 I caught one of the red shoulders on the ground plucking a jungle fowl pullet that had just been turned out to free range a couple of days prior. She was unusual in that I hatched her and her sister from abnormally small eggs and I was keeping them to see if the egg size effects their adult size or not. Having not been free ranged before, she lacked the alertness or the knowledge to beware of the hawk. I left her sister out that night and the next day, the red shoulder was on a fence post overlooking the garden area when I drove up from work. When it flew off I found the sister hiding under a fig tree. So I guess she learned her lesson the day before. Just for good measure and because this is an experimental bird, I put her back up and I'm not likely to free range her again until I'm done observing her.

Today I was sitting among the chickens in the garden area with my camera and I observed this red shoulder come over and check them out from a distance. I'm sure it saw me and I initially stood up when I saw it than decided to sit back down and take pictures.

Remember that my chickens are small. My adult jungle fowl hybrids top out at 2-3lbs as mature cocks and less as hens and pullets. For reference, these are the two small pullets that I was free ranging when the hawk popped one. The American/Oriental game cross in the middle of them is the size of one of my adult jungle fowl and its the same age as the pullets. I doubt there's many people who free range such small bodied chickens and that's probably a reason people don't often deal with red shouldered hawk problems. It seems like the hawks want the bitties to be feathered before they're interested in them. By age, the American-Oriental cross in the middle has probably already sized out of being an interest or viable target to the red-shoulders. Although I suspect anything that stops the red-shoulders from regularly taking the adult jungle fowl is simply a quirk in the behavior of the hawk. They have the size to take one down no problem. They probably couldn't fly off with one. It seems they struggle to fly off with bitties the size of these two pullets. It dropped the pullet to fly over the fence when I walked up on it plucking her in the garden area.