- Thread starter
- #61
Exopoulterer
Songster
Thanks for this!I agree with everybody, sorry you may be dealing with Marek's. Try not to panic, in many cases it's manageable. Birds with Marek's are more susceptible to many other things due to weakened immune systems, so doing what you can to keep things clean, minimizing things that can cause them stress, doing what you can to keep them as healthy as possible, can help. Some strains are more virulent than others, so that makes a difference as well.
Also, don't beat yourself up, Marek's is much more common than many people realize. I have no doubt that there are chicken keepers out there that have lost birds to Marek's and have no idea. Symptoms can be variable, and do not always look like the common ones described in literature. It could have been on your property for a very long time, it can travel on the wind for miles, you will probably never know how it got there (assuming the test comes back positive).
Read as much as you can, research articles, educate yourself as much as you can on the disease and the vaccine. Then you can make decisions about it, in the way that works for you. I will link a very good article by @microchick below. Her experience was/is very similar to mine, but every flock is a little different, and none are exactly the same. It depends on the strain, the breeds of birds (some are more susceptible), individual immune systems, millions of variables.
I don't personally recommend OR discourage the vaccine, I think every person needs to research and make a decision that is comfortable for them, that works for them. The vaccine does not stop them from contracting, carrying, or spreading the virus. It only stops the vaccinated bird from developing the tumors associated with it, and thus reduces mortality in the flock. There is a school of thought that by preventing birds from succumbing to it, it may cause the virus to become more virulent by allowing them to live longer with it. It is very hard to find good studies that are understandable for laymen that help with the information. Read what you can find.
I also understand the desire to not keep birds that are going to get sick and die if it's preventable. Thus the individual decision we all have to make. There is also a long thread here, which I will also link below, on discussions of breeding to develop birds that are more resistant. There are some breeds, like Fayoumi's, which are naturally more resistant to the virus (fayoumi's are not for everyone, always research a breed before getting them to make sure they will fit in your particular circumstance).
After the first couple of years (and I'm pretty sure I lost one to Marek's early on that I didn't realize at the time what it was, my canary in the coal mine) things have settled down in my flock. I lost one last year, I currently have one that has obvious occular symptoms, and one very old bird that may or may not have Marek's, she's got odd symptoms, but she's also 14 going on 15 years old (unvaccinated and in a Marek's positive flock!), and has had the symptoms for years. That's out of 40 current birds. So things can and do calm down and become manageable in many cases. I also have to say, despite her longevity, every chick I ever hatched from her was lost to Marek's.When I started losing them I stopped hatching from her, and at this point she hasn't laid in years. So if you do get a positive, and choose to continue, I highly recommend keeping a simple journal or log, so you can remember what happened to whom, dates, whether they were vaccinated or not, any chicks that you can ID who the parents are (hatched in your flock), because over time it all runs together in memory. I try very hard to only hatch from asymptomatic birds, and not again from any bird whose chicks have been prone to developing symptoms.
On the parasite question, sadly Florida is an environment in which parasites thrive. It doesn't get cold enough for long enough, even in North Florida, to kill them off. It's one of the reasons you see so many pastures burnt every year, to help kill some of them off. Any animal that eats off the ground is going to pick them up. And there is really nothing you can do to get rid of them in the environment.
I moved my birds to a new coop on new ground a couple of years ago, which has helped some, I still have to worm about every three months. And eventually that might become monthly again. Every flock is different, every environment has it's own parasite load. Over time you will figure out how often you need to worm to keep your flock healthy. It's a pretty safe thing to do, so I wouldn't worry about how often it is, just do what you need to do. And parasites can make them much sicker than many people realize, as well. And pretty preventable. I even have to worm my dogs more often due to the feral cat population where I live, who leave deposits everywhere and my dogs end up with hookworm.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...-i-learned-to-deal-with-mareks-disease.76944/
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/the-great-big-giant-mareks-disease-faq.66077/
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...ding-for-resistance-to-mareks-disease.894589/
And lastly this one I posted several years ago. It has necropsy photo's, if that bothers you. It also has some comments by others, including one on the vaccine, that might be helpful and informative:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/necropsy-photos-graphic-mareks-disease-for-info.1525851/
I spoke with a man this morning who called me about the pending mareks and other results and I mentioned the area N.FL and how it seems to be around and he pretty much said that it isn't just this area but that they test for it. I guess you will find something more often if you are looking for it.
I don't know how I feel about this as I guess I have no control over eradication of the virus on my property as it is small and others nearby have poultry too.
That is awesome that you have had things calm down and a bird/birds that live for years despite mareks.
I only have 4 birds left of my first and original 5 and maybe will be 3 if I keep getting attacked by Cleatus who I do not want to breed. Cleatus, Big Red, The Nuzzler, and Dove. Only Big Red is laying as The Nuzzler stopped when I pulled Scaley and brought her inside for most of the day. Dove hasn't laid since 11/2 and she has had watery squirty diarrhea since a couple months old at the most. Deworming, corid, probiotics, yogurt, nor carrot soup will touch this. She is just a squirty bird but has a normal looking cecal poop oddly enough. She also occasionally loses water from the beak too. No foul crop smell and always empty in the morning after soaking the coop bedding.
I don't exactly know how old Cleatus is but Red and Dove are estimated to have hatched around 4/20 with Scaley and Nuz is a couple weeks younger.
Even if I "depopulated" (the word the man used) and tried decontaminating, I feel like I would still get diseases anyway if I got new chickens here.
Anyway, on to what I might have some control over:
-What run bedding or flooring have you found to be good?
I have been using pine shavings thrown on top of the local sand and soil but have no idea how to manage parasite ova load with this. It all kind of mixes together and makes it hard or impossible to spot clean or do a whole cleanout if I need to. Probably won't compost either with the sand...
-Sort of a little bit of control over stray animals.
I too have a feral/stray cat situation that came with the property next door. They were being fed but not fixed. No good.
I have inside only rescues I brought to this property when I moved here. Every cat I can dose gets lufenuron/nitenpyram most months and it has really knocked back the fleas and tapeworms we used to get. Every time I have another cat fixed and ear tipped another shows up. Many still die from roaming dogs mostly. We buried many.
I have 3 Tomcats that visit now that are a real pain in the butt! One of them is a dumped pet that is staying around and he is mean to all the girls and boys. Never seen one that beat up females like this.
I am considering deworming cats as well but am not made of money. Might buy a bottle of pyrantel pamoate if albendazole isn't safe for them.
I used pyrantel on the cats a few years ago after some abandoned puppies came by and crapped straight "spagetti with black charcoal sauce" on my yard and porch after apparently getting into a neighbor's fire pit.
Animal control in this county is just about useless. I called 10 days in a row about the puppies until they knew it was me calling. Said they were full. They tried to get me to feel bad and feed them so they would legally be mine. Sorry I was at max capacity with my one senior dog and my 5 rescue cats as well as the ferals I was having fixed out of county because there were no resources here. Finally, after saying I will make a fb page about this issue they found a place that I could take the puppies to. Safepet rescue. Lo and behold, a few months later one of those easily identified puppies returned to visit me, grown and still intact with testicles! How can a rescue do this?
Anyway, after the death of that mail lady they have improved slightly but I think they are really overwhelmed. Many folks here seem to have more animals than they can take care of and they end up backyard bred or just unfixed, tied up and crying all day and night, sick and/or loose.
We have raccoons, opossums, armadillos, and other wildlife bring in stuff too.
I love animals but sometimes it feels like it is just too much.
Parasites are a constant battle but fleas can definitely be knocked back a bit! The rest? IDK
I don't mind the necropsy photos and have no problem with learning more about chickens in that way. Doing it myself would be hard but maybe one day...
When I started losing them I stopped hatching from her, and at this point she hasn't laid in years. So if you do get a positive, and choose to continue, I highly recommend keeping a simple journal or log, so you can remember what happened to whom, dates, whether they were vaccinated or not, any chicks that you can ID who the parents are (hatched in your flock), because over time it all runs together in memory. I try very hard to only hatch from asymptomatic birds, and not again from any bird whose chicks have been prone to developing symptoms.
