Tape Worms??

[MichelleT]

Sorry in advance for the length of this post... I just wanted to make sure the full story was considered...

For the past 2 months or so I've had an on-again-off-again situation with loose stools. I wormed the flock (5 laying birds, 2 hens and 3 pullets) with Safeguard in early October and all but one got the full dose. (One of the pullets, Zoe, wouldn't eat the "treat" if she was alone, and if I gave it to her with her pullet-friends, they ate more than she did. So I'm not really sure if she got 75% of a dose or 90% or maybe 100%? Next time, I'm just squirting it in her mouth!) Anyway - it cleared up... for a couple weeks... then one (maybe two) birds started showing loose stools in the morning on the poop board. I narrowed it down to (I think) Zoe and maybe one other. But understand - some mornings there were 5 neat little piles under the roost, other mornings 4 piles and 1 puddle.

So, per the vet instructions, I scooped up samples of ALL the hen's poops and took it in to be tested. The results (and if you want to see the actual lab results, I'll copy and paste), according to the vet, was that there were roundworms at 1+ level and 1 (ONE) cecal worm egg seen on the slide. Coccidiosis was negative.

Her (the vet's) opinion was that this was not an overload and we don't need to treat it, although I could but it would mean 6 weeks egg withrawl with the drugs she would prescribe. (Big, but understandable, sad face here) I decided not to treat.

This morning there are THREE puddles and 2 piles. Some pics are below. I think there may be worms in there, but when I used a paperclip to move them to take the picture better, they were very stiff... almost like straw... but the girls weren't eating anything different yesterday or remotely like straw or dried grass.



The hens (2 of them) weigh right at 5 pounds and 5 lbs-1 oz. This is their nomal weight.
The pullets (7 months old) are 3 lbs-15 oz, 4 lbs-1oz (both these are EEs) and 4 lbs-4 oz (a NHR). Zoe is the 3lb-15oz pullet. She has also been showing signs of thirst... more than the others. I see her at the water bowl more and she bypasses food in the morning to get to the water first.

Otherwise, their egg laying is good (5-6 eggs/week for the NHR pullet, 4-5 for the EEs and 3-4 for the old ladies), and they're very consistent. Their crops are nice and full in the evening and empty in the morning. They show no signs of illness other than the poop, although I'm aware that this means little in the chicken realm.

So, my questions, finally:
a.) My good buddy @TwoCrows thought that maybe they could be tape worms... she suggested I post here because she doesn't have any experience with tapes. Anyone with tapeworm experience have any thoughts for me?
b.) Should we be considering something else? (not parasites)
c.) What would your next steps be if this was your flock?

 

[Eggcessive]

I can see a possible tapeworm head in the last 2 pictures, but I am not an expert. Casportpony is very good with advice on tapes. I would be tempted to get another fecal float, especially if you see a short white ribbon-looking object or white dots. Zimectrin Gold has praziquantel in it which is good against tapeworm, but there is another one she recommends as well. Tapeworm is hard to completely get rid of, and is one of the more unusual worms in chickens. Hopefully your fecal float will be negative, and you won't have to worry.

 

[MichelleT]

I just sent the pics to the vet and asked the same thing... wouldn't tapes have shown up in the fecal float? It was done exactly a week ago...

 

[lazy gardener]

It's possible for worms to be missed in a fecal float. But, IMO, if they are missed, it is most likely a sub clinical case, in other words, not heavy enough to bother to treat. FYI, it's normal for warm blooded animals to have intestinal parasites. It's only when they become problematic, or heavy in numbers that treatment is warranted. My vision is not the best, and the photos are not terribly clear, but I do not see anything that indicates tape or round worms. Chickens sometimes have loose stools. Are you giving them treats, or are they only eating their formulated feed?

 

[MichelleT]

It's possible for worms to be missed in a fecal float. But, IMO, if they are missed, it is most likely a sub clinical case, in other words, not heavy enough to bother to treat. FYI, it's normal for warm blooded animals to have intestinal parasites. It's only when they become problematic, or heavy in numbers that treatment is warranted. My vision is not the best, and the photos are not terribly clear, but I do not see anything that indicates tape or round worms. Chickens sometimes have loose stools. Are you giving them treats, or are they only eating their formulated feed?

They get fermented feed, dry feed and sprouts (wheat seeds) daily. Their "treats" consist of mostly fresh greens (a few large leaves every couple of days) and some meal worms a couple of times a week. We do feed kitchen scraps on occasion - but it's not the regular fare.

I'm not convinced the worm-y things were actually worms because they were stiff, like straw. They were, however, in multiple poop piles... I just added some dried leaves to the run for fun, so maybe something that was raked up was in the new playground?

 

[lazy gardener]

I guess my take on chicken poop is this: It can be dry, wet, runny, full of urates or not. It can even have occasional bloody pieces of shed intestinal lining in it. It can have lots of visible fibers in it or not. Do I inspect poop? Yes, daily. But, unless I see something that is truly disturbing, and see it repeatedly, and unless I have one or more birds who are acting sick, I don't worry about it!

 

[TwoCrows]

There is a thing with too much probiotics, I know you like fermented feed, but could they be getting too much good bacteria? Too much probiotics can cause the immune system to over react. I have found that too much ACV (just incase you are offering it up) can cause a lot of diarrhea as can too many vitamins and electrolytes.

Wheat can be hard to digest as well.

Just throwing out the thoughts here.

 

[lazy gardener]

Agreed with above about a lot of sprouted wheat. And wheat sprouts can give the girls looser poo. However, it does not sound like OP is giving too much ferment. My flock gets 100% of their ration fermented, unless I have been lazy about getting my buckets filled. Then, they might get a bucket of dry, but will be back to 100% ferment the next day. No issues here. However, when my flock gets a lot of sprouts, I notice their poo is looser.

 

[TwoCrows]

Maybe try cutting out the wheat sprouts? Some of your birds may be able to digest them well enough, other birds not so much.

 

[MichelleT]

I'll start backing off the sprouts - and then maybe try them every few days instead of every day. Right now, I've got some days in line to feed and I'm not throwing them out.